Realsim, the disc, and transportation.

[Imbrium]

I don't understand why so many gamers are obsessed about realism in video games. Especially fantasy games.

All these inane questions about the disc! "How does it hover over water?"

who cares? It's CHAOS! In a setting where humans can conjure fire from their fingertips, and green-skinned monsters that wield axes. Let him

Then there are the anti-instant transportation crowd. WHY, oh WHY do you >not< want instant transportation. I've been playing WoW for over a year, and I am sick of flying. sick of it. It just makes the game take longer to accomplish anything, and adds nothing but a time sink.

TIME SINKS = BAD for gamers.

I can understand having >optional< "scenic routes" where you just watch the sites of the game. But when I want to get from one town to another, the longer it takes the more it annoys me.

Oblivion got transportation right. You can walk, ride a mount, or just click and be there.

I've got some other issues where I just don't understand why someone would want realism over a fantastical idea, especially when the fantastical idea 1) saves time 2) makes the game more interesting.

[GrandOne]

Only thing to answer is, it's a game!, A Freacking Game!, not real, not real, not real

[Gorn]

why do some people like onions and yet I do not? They want it because they want it. It's why people have different styles, habits, hobbies, whatever. I think you got it right with Oblivion though just have the options for all of them. That is realistic enough. If I want to go to Florida (insert another state that is long distance from you if you live in Florida) with my friends and want to walk and they want to drive I still have the choice to walk but they are going to be there and back bfore I ever even get there. That's just like real life. Just because you can choose to walk doesn't mean you can convince everyone else. If it really is that important to me I could just walk anyway and go alone.

[Garthilk]

Actually the disk traveling over water is a strategy question not a disc question. If you can float over water or your opponents are using water as a barrior between you and them, Magi are in a unique position to exploit their advantage over foes.

[Jerrus]

Actually the disk traveling over water is a strategy question not a disc question. If you can float over water or your opponents are using water as a barrior between you and them, Magi are in a unique position to exploit their advantage over foes.

Depends on how deep the water is and/or if there are underwater breathing buffs. In which case people can hide from Magus under water ;)

[Instant_Karma]

Depends on how deep the water is and/or if there are underwater breathing buffs. In which case people can hide from Magus under water ;)

Muhahaha:

- *Magus floating on disk blasting and mutating players with near impunity*
-*Witchhunter with water breathing buff swims up to magus without being detected*
-*Witchhunter swims up and out of the water and tackles the magus and pulls him off disk in which case and massive water brawl breaks out*

I know we've heard rumors the magus will always been on disk, but you guys can't deny that scenario sounds fun...if you're the one doing the ambushing.

[Gorge]

- *Magus floating on disk blasting and mutating players with near impunity*
-*Witchhunter with water breathing buff swims up to magus without being detected*


Right here is where that plan falls apart, though. How would the Witchhunter keep the disc itself from detecting him and ripping him to shreds?

[XShrike]

Not to mention how does one swim with armor on.

[Apocryphus]

Actually the disk traveling over water is a strategy question not a disc question. If you can float over water or your opponents are using water as a barrior between you and them, Magi are in a unique position to exploit their advantage over foes.

Every class has advantages and disadvantages though. I imagine the magus is going to be pretty squishy, all things considered. So it makes sense to balance that out with improved maneuverability. :cool:

[Boulvae]

Not to mention how does one swim with armor on.

Ask the samurai who could swim with around 200 pounds worth of armour holding them down and you'll know.

[Imbrium]

Not to mention how does one swim with armor on.

Um, the same freakin way a person conjures fireballs from the fingertips and farts lightning.

IT IS A FANTASY VIDEO GAME. Fun and gameplay > realism.

[Guadior]

I don't understand why so many gamers are obsessed about realism in video games. Especially fantasy games.
All these inane questions about the disc! "How does it hover over water?"
who cares? It's CHAOS! In a setting where humans can conjure fire from their fingertips, and green-skinned monsters that wield axes.

Here, here!

[Nerror]

Ask the samurai who could swim with around 200 pounds worth of armour holding them down and you'll know.

Well it wasn't 200 pounds of pure metal. 200 pounds of wood will float. Some of the materials the samurai armor was made of would float in water too. You have to figure in the buoyancy of the armor. :)

[Pheonnexx]

Wasnt samurai armor a mix of leather and bamboo/wood? and a little metal with it.

I think only marines today swim with about 70 pounds or something. But the whole disc over water i assume magic powers it hence makes it possible.

[Bloodboil]

i wonder WHEN we will actually see a magus on a disc

the class has already been revealed in the newsletter a while

are they just not ready yet?

[Kaikai]

Then there are the anti-instant transportation crowd. WHY, oh WHY do you >not< want instant transportation. I've been playing WoW for over a year, and I am sick of flying. sick of it. It just makes the game take longer to accomplish anything, and adds nothing but a time sink.

TIME SINKS = BAD for gamers.


meh... big deal, your so experienced with WoW.. yawn.
try being an experienced player of EVE, UO, EQ and the other older games.
now THAT was a long time between travels.
WoW's transit times are/were fine.

as for the disc floating over water thing, its a big deal.
it means you neverhave to swim, it means you can sit in a lake and shoot people, it means you can probaly float faster than you can swim.
it means tactical advantages

[checkthis5000]

as for the disc floating over water thing, its a big deal.
it means you neverhave to swim, it means you can sit in a lake and shoot people, it means you can probaly float faster than you can swim.
it means tactical advantages

Maybe the disk slows down when it's over water. Perhaps the chaos energy isn't as readily available. If the speed of the Magus slows down the same as a swimming person's then the tactical advantages won't really be there, since then a Bright Wizard could cast from the water as well as a Magus could cast from on top of the water.

I guess there won't be very many "This is at the bottom of that lake" quests for the Magus. :p

Who knows. I'm very curious as to the mechanics of the disk and how it's going to work.

[Kaikai]

Maybe the disk slows down when it's over water. Perhaps the chaos energy isn't as readily available. If the speed of the Magus slows down the same as a swimming person's then the tactical advantages won't really be there, since then a Bright Wizard could cast from the water as well as a Magus could cast from on top of the water.

I guess there won't be very many "This is at the bottom of that lake" quests for the Magus. :p

Who knows. I'm very curious as to the mechanics of the disk and how it's going to work.

and so am i :)
i just disagree with people who say 'WHO FRIKKIN CARES!?!?" because its clear that you do, and i do. :mrgreen:

[Ronge]

Im just wondering, will the magus be able to swim, it will be unusual to swim on a disk and magus's never get off, will there be any reason to swim, for say crafting materials and such

[Aleksei]

Im just wondering, will the magus be able to swim, it will be unusual to swim on a disk and magus's never get off, will there be any reason to swim, for say crafting materials and such

If the Disc floats over water and you can never get off the Disc it's logical to assume that you'll never be swimming as a Magus.

[ravn0s]

hehe

/pictures a magus upside down on his disc with his head in the water

[GrandOne]

:roll: And dead bodies of drowned Magus by the thousands rise from the sea to conquer the elven lands...

And the Elves, kill the discs and go home

[Fusko]

Edit: Nevermind hehehe >_>

['Eadhunter]

All these inane questions about the disc! "How does it hover over water?"

who cares? It's CHAOS! In a setting where humans can conjure fire from their fingertips, and green-skinned monsters that wield axes. Let him

I agree, and anyone who says disc thingies can't hover over water, play Jak 3 for PS2 and he has a hoverboard WHICH FLOATS OVER WATER.

'nuff said:cool:

[DaddysGirl]

Err..

has anyone thought of what might happen if the magus NEEDS to swim or go underwater, like for a quest? or mission? or if an enemy player he is chasing dives underwater and out of range, requiring the magus to follow if he wants the kill?

Logically, there will be exceptions to the "magus= always on disc" rule, im sure Mythic just meant for it to be in *most* situations, and swimming is not one of them. well, unless they can somehow make the disc a part of the swimming animation, though it may look odd.

[Fusko]

To quote Josh_Mythic


The Magus is always on the Disc.

Always, always, always.

Never NOT on the Disc.

Always ON the Disc.

Disc + Magus = ALWAYS

;)

[Lord Semaj]

Magus ON disk.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/newsletter/images/2007/0307NLSS_04.jpg

[Oasis]

ah but the magus will eventually get off the disk..i mean i dont think he'll stay on it forever..and the moment he does he'll find himself tackled by dozen of witch hunters:twisted:

[Fusko]

ah but the magus will eventually get off the disk..i mean i dont think he'll stay on it forever..and the moment he does he'll find himself tackled by dozen of witch hunters:twisted:

Sorta sad it would take a dozen witch hunter for one magus ;)

[Oddeye]

ah but the magus will eventually get off the disk..i mean i dont think he'll stay on it forever..and the moment he does he'll find himself tackled by dozen of witch hunters:twisted:

The disk is a gift FROM A GOD. Never ever ever get off the damn thing and if he ever does, witch hunters are going to be the least of his problems.

[gHosT]

The Magus Disk looks really cool :)
But i can't believe, that magus is always on that Disk.

[Deathsbest]

The Magus Disk looks really cool :)
But i can't believe, that magus is always on that Disk.

you could try jumping off and see what happens might not be pretty though

[Aleksei]

Assssssk more questions about the disssc...

[Commentaris]

But i can't believe, that magus is always on that Disk.
THE MAGUS IS ALWAYS ON THE DISK! ALWAYS! NOT SOMETIMES OR IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS.....BUT ALWAYS! FOREVER! TILL THE END OF TIME!

if you cant believe what Sanya tells us in grab bag, what Josh has posted on these forums and what Paul has been telling us for months then you have a problem.

"i can;t believe there will be a war in this game, eventhough i've been told repeatedly that there WAR IS EVERYWHERE!"

really.....

[gHosT]

Many Devs post things of the Game and that will not be in the Game. For example in Warhammer Online:

1st: Their will be no levels / ranks in the game, you will become stronger with time.

Now: Their will be levels / ranks in the game

[Diabolix]

Many Devs post things of the Game and that will not be in the Game. For example in Warhammer Online:

1st: Their will be no levels in the game
Now: Their will be levels in the game

There are no level its ranks, 10 ranks = 1 tier.

[gHosT]

There are no level its ranks, 10 ranks = 1 tier.
40 ranks = 40 levels, partitioned in 4 Tiers.. I mean ranks but say levels, it's the same.

[Commentaris]

Many Devs post things of the Game and that will not be in the Game. For example in Warhammer Online:

1st: Their will be no levels / ranks in the game, you will become stronger with time.

Now: Their will be levels / ranks in the game

yet all we've ever heard about the disk says: "the magus is always on the disk."

they've never sayd anything else about. they have been completely consisted about this information.

it's only the community that is trying to question this rather simple piece of information by thinking up ever more elaborate situation in which the magus 'clearly' cant saty on the disk. this started with "how can a magus go through a door while on the disk?" to "how can a magus cross water while being on the disk?" to "how does a magus stay on a disk when he falls or gets knocked back?" to finally "how does a magus stay on the disk while running an obstacle course with one leg tied behind his back and trying to juggle 6 different coloured balls while it's raining and the wind blowing at mach1?"

[Aleksei]

Yes but the Disc bids me ask what happens when you die? Do we get an animation of the Disc consuming us? Does the Disc just fade out/disappear?

[Commentaris]

dont listen to the disc...:eek:

[Firann]

The magus doens't need to swim... HE SURFS! COWABANGA DUDES!

[Oasis]

Yes but the Disc bids me ask what happens when you die? Do we get an animation of the Disc consuming us? Does the Disc just fade out/disappear?
yea dont listen to the blasphemous lies the disc tells you..or you can burn by my holy water;)

[Chaoslizard]

I just wish there was some logical purpose to the disc. I am a roleplayer and support 100% elements of the game that are placed there for immersion alone - but it should make some sort of logical sense-

I quote Sanya from the Grab Bag -
"What I think Designer Josh was trying to say before he sacrificed a goat to his dark lord was that a magus will have his disc right from the very beginning, that a magus will not have any inherent speed or other travel bonus, that a magus will travel over water at the same speed that other characters are swimming, that a magus will take falling damage if he is foolish enough to jump from high places, that using the disc is second nature to the magus, and that a magus never, never, EVER gets off the disc. More than that, it's too soon to say. "

Its like giving a warrior a sword of flame - he will always hold it but it does no damage, you cant attack with it, you cant defend with it, everywhere you go you hold it and people will see it but other than that it wont effect your game play at all.

I'm trying to understand the purpose of something designed for chaos I suppose.

Will the mounts of the Knights of the Blazing Sun have any buffs of any kind for being mounted? Or can anyone keep up with them on barefeet? Will the Knight be able to get off his horse?

Give me a fine hill and a squat of squigs to herd and call it a day.

[Hyperion]

Why do people always have to moan about cool stuff? They've moaned about Bright Wizards exploding, they've moaned about mounted combat, and now they're moaning about the disk!

LOOK AT IT! It's about 10X cooler than anything I ever expected them to come up with, I was thinking some sort of disk of dark energy but no, it's a half mechanical, half demon shiny spinning platform of awesomeness. The disc is in the game, so suck it up ya bunch of bleedin hypochondriacs, and trust in Mythic a company that made a balanced (well eventually but they've learnt from their primary mistakes) three faction RvR game!

Three factions! And WAR only has 2! This game will be balanced, it will be fun and most importantly they're going to cram it full of damn cool stuff like the disk, and armored chargers, and cannons, and exploding men with beards! So just have a little faith the lads at Mythic are going to do it right, because they are more than able, and they're damn well going to if ye Barnett has anything to say about it.

[Fusko]

Troof. From the looks of the disc in Paul's Video blog (Where he was gliding around on it), the disc looks really amazing. I can't wait to play the class

[Estebar]

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=738&c=4 I love this picture. Do we think she's levitating or jumping on top of the disc?

[Hyperion]

Secret answer c) rising off the disk to call down a rain of custard.

[Estebar]

Actually, looking at this week's Video Blog, "Jeremy Gets a Biscuit", (http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/behindTheScenes/vidPhoneDiaries/2007march.php) it might just be taken half-way through the temporary spinning/backflipping disc-summoning animation Paul and Jeremy made for transferring the temporary walking Magus animation onto the permanent disc floating animation.

[Noah]

Travel times are inherently necessary for a world based on RvR. It makes you decide where you should be, where you want to be, and where you don't want to be. It also makes timing more important. You can use tactics. Throw a diversion into one front, and maybe it'll pull defenders away from others. Having an instant transportation destroys that.

[Ralzar]

Err..

has anyone thought of what might happen if the magus NEEDS to swim or go underwater, like for a quest? or mission? or if an enemy player he is chasing dives underwater and out of range, requiring the magus to follow if he wants the kill?

Logically, there will be exceptions to the "magus= always on disc" rule, im sure Mythic just meant for it to be in *most* situations, and swimming is not one of them. well, unless they can somehow make the disc a part of the swimming animation, though it may look odd.

That's easily solved: Don't have underwater content.

I'm pretty sure I've read some interview whre a Dev says as much. There is no underwater fighting and questing. You just swim on the surface while the Magus flies on his disc above the surface.

[Tragedy]

Yes they're always on the disc, except the fact that theres ingame footage from video blog which clearly shows the guy not on the disc and appears to 'summon' it along with having an animation to go with this.

Maybe I'm miss-interpritating the video and he's only not on the disc for coding/etc. reasons, but to me it looks clear that there is no disc and that it's then summoned, so while it's been said in the past the disc will always exist things might have changed for gameplay reasons.

Or I could just be totally wrong (likely). :)

[Lord Semaj]

You're totally wrong. That was an animation created for the purpose of that video. The disk was not finished at the time of earlier videos so when it was ready, they introduced it in a neat way.

[Kruniac]

I don't understand why so many gamers are obsessed about realism in video games. Especially fantasy games.

All these inane questions about the disc! "How does it hover over water?"

who cares? It's CHAOS! In a setting where humans can conjure fire from their fingertips, and green-skinned monsters that wield axes. Let him

Then there are the anti-instant transportation crowd. WHY, oh WHY do you >not< want instant transportation. I've been playing WoW for over a year, and I am sick of flying. sick of it. It just makes the game take longer to accomplish anything, and adds nothing but a time sink.

TIME SINKS = BAD for gamers.

I can understand having >optional< "scenic routes" where you just watch the sites of the game. But when I want to get from one town to another, the longer it takes the more it annoys me.

Oblivion got transportation right. You can walk, ride a mount, or just click and be there.

I've got some other issues where I just don't understand why someone would want realism over a fantastical idea, especially when the fantastical idea 1) saves time 2) makes the game more interesting.

Realism must be maintained over gameplay and especially balance only when said realism is by a strict following of canon, both published, and commonly known and accepted.

The lack of the other Chaos gods in WarOnline makes me nauseous. This can, however, be explained away.

The lack of Ork females is a welcome addition. Here we see where realism took its part in saying "Bite me" to the hordes of angry gamers, screaming for their Ork Beatches.

Im sure the proper GW material can explain the movement of this "disc" on water surfaces. If it says specifically one way or another if it can, than it should be adopted.

[Tragedy]

You're totally wrong. That was an animation created for the purpose of that video. The disk was not finished at the time of earlier videos so when it was ready, they introduced it in a neat way.

Thanks for clearing it up. :)

[Ralzar]

The lack of the other Chaos gods in WarOnline makes me nauseous. This can, however, be explained away.

Why? It's not like it goes against the lore. You can only PLAY Tzeench. It doesn't mean the other gods don't exist or aren't represented in the game. We've had several concept arts of Khornite stuff and there was a move of a Nurgle deamon a while back.

[Fusko]

And just because theres only Tzeentch now, doesn't mean Khorne or Nurgle won't be added later, I mean, theres still a big chance that Beastmen will be released later on in an expansion as either Khorne or Nurgle, or both. :wink:

[Grakaz]

Im curious to see what happens when the Magus dies. Will the disc eat him, or will it just go away, leaving the Magus to rot, or will it remain stuck to the Magus' feet?

[DeadInMySights]

A true disc would carry his fallen mage to a safe place (then eat him).

That's a good question, and perhaps as the psychic link to his disk falters, the disc just does one.

Alternatively, sicne Magus Classes are Chaos and therefore unkillable in any way, GW has never needed to address this issue. Peace.

By the way: You have a flying disc and magic and you're all crying over a simple water thing? Oh my God. Do us all a favour and just play Humans, they may be normal enough for you and i don't want a Magus stood in the middle of my Chaos Fort crying cause his disc got wet.

EDIT: To the poster who mentioned the nausea of having only one playable God (which i share completely, only Khorne really gets me wet) - look at this image, they look a lot like Khornate Bloodletter Daemons - http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=739&goto=previous&c=4

[Xerac Voor]

To the poster who mentioned the nausea of having only one playable God (which i share completely, only Khorne really gets me wet) - look at this image, they look a lot like Khornate Bloodletter Daemons - http://www.warhammeralliance.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=739&goto=previous&c=4

I think they look more like Chaos Furies than Bloodletters.

As far as the disc goes, it'll probably just hover over water like it hovers over ground.

[Objulen]

Games should follow an internal set of logic determined by the fluff and setting, as well as balance.

That being said, it's a freaking demon of Tzeentch. It don't need to explination to float on water.