The problems with talisman making summed up

[abigsmurf]

Here's a list of the current problems I've initially come across with Talisman making and hopefully this thread can sum up the big issues harming the class:

1: It needs too many items

It's currently next to impossible, unless your in a guild with lots of other crafters to get the crafting items you need, especially as they come from a variety of professions. The AH isn't being used much on my server at the moment so that may fill up but it still looks like buying the materials will cost a lot more than a talisman should be worth. Also, it clogs up your bag space having so many craft related items

2: You need to get to 25 far too early

I'm not sure on the exact level that talismans start needing 25 skill but it's around rank 8-9. As you whizz through these levels you stand no chance of getting enough drops.

3: Remove timed talismans

What good is an 8 hour +2 stat talisman? It's essentially a pathetic buff (and an incredibly expensive one at that). If we're going to have timed ones, at least give them better stats than non-timed ones. They're pretty much junk.

4: Confusing in general

The Talisman making screen isn't amazingly clear. There are scores of people who think they've never found a talisman trainer because they're called "hedge wizards". I know that's part of the lore but there's nothing that gives any indication that they are the ones to go to for talisman training. Also, where is the Hedge Wizard in altdorf? All the other trainers/vendors are easy to find, running around for ages in the city didn't find it and I had to fly back to a chapter 2 location to stock up on items.

5: other professions are easier in comparisson

heading sums it up

6: No drops from PQs or in general

Other professions seem to get plenty of drops but, other than the salvaging drops, I've never seen a drop or reward that Talisman makers need.

Am I whining too much or are these the problems that need to be addressed?

[Abriael]

1: It needs too many items

It's currently next to impossible, unless your in a guild with lots of other crafters to get the crafting items you need, especially as they come from a variety of professions. The AH isn't being used much on my server at the moment so that may fill up but it still looks like buying the materials will cost a lot more than a talisman should be worth. Also, it clogs up your bag space having so many craft related items

You know, that's what is called "economy". If a crafter could do all by himself, then there wouldn't be an economy


2: You need to get to 25 far too early

I'm not sure on the exact level that talismans start needing 25 skill but it's around rank 8-9. As you whizz through these levels you stand no chance of getting enough drops.

That's why you can easily buy some cheap renown gear to salvage it and use the fragments to up your talisman making.


3: Remove timed talismans

What good is an 8 hour +2 stat talisman? It's essentially a pathetic buff (and an incredibly expensive one at that). If we're going to have timed ones, at least give them better stats than non-timed ones. They're pretty much junk.

You should have tested it more througly before commenting it, I'm afraid. 8 hours are just for white talismans. Time increases with rarity. Green talismans are already 20 hours, which is plenty, and the stats increase as well with level and power. Expendability works great, because it keeps the economy running.


5: other professions are easier in comparisson

heading sums it up

Easier? Maybe, but they're also less rewarding.

[Dorgon]

1: It needs too many items

Aye it is hard to get alot of what you need, but as you said once more people start loading up the auction house things should get better.


2: You need to get to 25 far too early

I started getting level 25 skill items in the tier two zones. I did have to do a little bit of farming mobs in tier one to hit 25 so I could continue in tier two zones. I finished my last few levels buying renown gear which wasn't too bad.


3: Remove timed talismans

Well at low level I didn't have my armor for very long before I got a better drop, or bought a better piece of renown gear. The HQ talismans are a bit better and last for two days, all in all a decent low level buff you can stack on some items.


4: Confusing in general

Agreed.


5: other professions are easier in comparisson

Haven't messed with the other craft much.


6: No drops from PQs or in general

Yeah I mainly Salvage any PQ drops I don't need, you pretty much have to have a Scavenging guild mate or buy the better curios. Same with the better gold essences needing Apothecary.


Am I whining too much or are these the problems that need to be addressed?

I believe this craft still has some work to be done to it. After all it was put in last so I am sure they will tweek it here and there.

[abigsmurf]

You know, that's what is called "economy". If a crafter could do all by himself, then there wouldn't be an economy



That's why you can easily buy some cheap renown gear to salvage it and use the fragments to up your talisman making.



You should have tested it more througly before commenting it, I'm afraid. 8 hours are just for white talismans. Time increases with rarity. Green talismans are already 20 hours, which is plenty, and the stats increase as well with level and power. Expendability works great, because it keeps the economy running.



Easier? Maybe, but they're also less rewarding.

1: an economy is great but the more you are forced to rely on a wide variety of people, the bigger the chance of you getting 'stuck' at a stage is. At the moment to level Talisman making effectively you either need a guild with lots of very active crafters or a very busy AH. The AH is currently empty, as it was in the beta, it may become packed but that's an unknown at the moment.

2: buying enough green reknown gear to get to 25 is not at all cheap. With the failure rates taken into account, you may need to buy many dozens of pieces of gear to top up your drops. That's 3g+ and then you've got to spend a fortune buying other people's craft items.

3: Given how often you're replacing equiptment it wouldn't harm the economy making them permenent. Most Talismans are nothing but incredibly expensive, weak buffs when timed.

[Magentix]

You forgot:

There is no way to obtain a container other than the level 1 merchant sold one.

[zerj]

As a short term thing, I definately don't like the expiration time on talismans. However in the long run the expiration timer should be what keeps up demand for talismans and could turn this into a profitable skill.

I'd rather have some max level char pay me 100 gold a week to recraft his talismans than have him pay me 100 gold once.

[spinxtrm]

Where do you get the fragments? And are they actually called fragments?

[Bright]

1: It needs too many items
Disagree

2: You need to get to 25 far too early
agree

3: Remove timed talismans
disagree

4: Confusing in general
only for the first 10 minutes

5: other professions are easier in comparisson
yup

6: No drops from PQs or in general
meh

Talisman making is a challenge, and I enjoy it. My only problem is having to farm greens to try to get fragments. This would be fine if all greens gave fragments, or more greens gave fragments. My other problem is the whole get to 25 thing. By the time I hit tier 2 i think my talisman making was level 6. I have around 30 lvl 25 fragments stored up, but I'm currently only level 15..... so I try to farm greens in tier 1 by doing PQs and getting the loot bag, but to my dismay, I try and heal some lowbie and he is flagged for RvR, which in turn transforms me into a chicken and I get 1 shotted by the mob that I am fighting....

Mythic should either make it Easier to gain level 25 or stagger the items usable, like 1-10, 10-15 15-25. I've been needing all green gear that isn't usable by people in my groups in order to store up for when I hit 25 talisman making. I'm ready this time.

[SnarkY]

I havent been doing it for long seeing how it took me until lvl 6 to figure out who the damn trainer was! :p But do you guys think this tradeskill is worth staying with or is it just too time consuming for now??

I could see how talismans would pay off in the long run, but right now it just feels like its dragging me down with no reward. :(

[Kayllana]

Where do you get the fragments? And are they actually called fragments?

I have the exact same question. Everything else I need to make my 1st one i can get at the vendor, can't find a fragment to save my life. Do I need a gathering skill to find these?

[Abriael]

I have the exact same question. Everything else I need to make my 1st one i can get at the vendor, can't find a fragment to save my life. Do I need a gathering skill to find these?

Fragments are received from salvaging green items.

1: an economy is great but the more you are forced to rely on a wide variety of people, the bigger the chance of you getting 'stuck' at a stage is. At the moment to level Talisman making effectively you either need a guild with lots of very active crafters or a very busy AH. The AH is currently empty, as it was in the beta, it may become packed but that's an unknown at the moment.

The only kind of item you need to actually find to skill up your craft are fragments. Everything else is provided by vendors. Sure, you won't make that much high quality fragments with vendored items, but for sure you won't get stuck.


2: buying enough green reknown gear to get to 25 is not at all cheap. With the failure rates taken into account, you may need to buy many dozens of pieces of gear to top up your drops. That's 3g+ and then you've got to spend a fortune buying other people's craft items.

Many dozens? Sorry but that's a pretty enormous exaggeration. Even because failure rates (with the right items that aren't too high level, IE boots) is VERY low.

3: Given how often you're replacing equiptment it wouldn't harm the economy making them permenent. Most Talismans are nothing but incredibly expensive, weak buffs when timed.

If you're replacing your equipment that often, what is the problem if they're timed? :rolleyes:

[RazielHex]

You should have tested it more througly before commenting it, I'm afraid. 8 hours are just for white talismans. Time increases with rarity. Green talismans are already 20 hours, which is plenty, and the stats increase as well with level and power. Expendability works great, because it keeps the economy running.


You can make +5 Wounds Talismans that last for 2 Days at level 1.

[Keslan]

I just want clarification on Renown gear. They white stuff I buy because I have enough renown can by salvaged? or is it just the jewlery from that merchant?

http://realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/CharacterInfo.war?id=17097&server=181

for example is the Militia Mailcoat I am wearing salvagable? or is there another merchant I need to find?

I would love to test this but I am at work :(

Ok I think I figured it out GREEN items can give you fragments.. as least that is what my research has led me to believe

[Keteh]

I like the idea of timed talismans. It keeps the demand flowing so that the money making side of Talisman crafting doesnt not just die out when people get in there best gear. When things are permanent people tend to not replace them. But if they naturally run out then you have to get more so it keeps talisman crafters cash flow moving

[magicktrick]

Many dozens? Sorry but that's a pretty enormous exaggeration. Even because failure rates (with the right items that aren't too high level, IE boots) is VERY low.


wasn't going to comment, but I had to when I read this. I've had about a 5-10% success rate with salvaging early on. Once I finally obtained a few levels, which took a good deal of time as I had to salvage around 10 items before I got my first fragment, I have around a 60% success rate. So yes, it can be expensive buying gear to breakdown.

[Abriael]

wasn't going to comment, but I had to when I read this. I've had about a 5-10% success rate with salvaging early on. Once I finally obtained a few levels, which took a good deal of time as I had to salvage around 10 items before I got my first fragment, I have around a 60% success rate. So yes, it can be expensive buying gear to breakdown.

This means you need to try lower level items.

[FalseMyrmidon]

It's obvious that Talisman Making is only halfway implemented.
-There's no way to get containers past level 1
-There's no way to buy TM basic materials in the IC (can't speak for Altdorf)
-There's no TM or Magical Salvaging trainer in the IC (if you go to the room where the salvaging trainer should be there's 3 trainers for the gathering professions standing in the corners and a guy that doesn't do anything in the forth)
-No Talisman Making products have any vendor value past 1 copper (pots from apothecary do)
-Apothecary and Cultivating materials (including higher level containers) are available from PQ bags while there's nothing for TM


Those are all facts. There are many additional things that could be argued as lacking polish such as:

The ONLY way to get fragments is through salvaging which makes early advancement very difficult and makes it difficult for new players to try it TM out making it more confusing than necessary. For Apothecary the main ingredients are available as plain drops, quest rewards (none of those for TM btw), drops from Butchering and Scavenging and Cultivating. Add in the fact that Salvaging inexplicably has a failure rate and that it is more confusing than it should be since the tooltip is wrong and it gives no feedback when trying to salvage something that is for some unknown reason unsalvageable such as belts (or shoulders, helms or accessories) and it's excessively difficult for a new player to even get started to make their first talisman.

[Colloquial]

I don't know about everyone else, but the prospect of having 2+ sets of gear at 40 and needing to hunt down AN ENTIRELY NEW assortment of talismans every... what... 3 or 4 days, if I make/buy good ones?

Sounds like a grind-based timesink. I thought this game was supposed to be avoiding them.

If the timers for the average ones are around 5-7 days of in-game time, with upwards of 2 or 3 weeks on the big shinies, that seems a bit more doable. Still annoying, though, especially if they EVER intend to add in more tradeskills which would, presumably add more desirables... adding more grind time to afford them...

Already, if you want to be competetive, you're going to need the best gear you can get, with the best talismans in it, with the best potions for your class. That's a lot of prep, if you ask me.

I don't really have an opinion on what should be done, if anything, but I do have concerns with how the competetive arena is going to shape up because of the tradeskills.

[Abriael]

Oh goodness, the whine. People are too used to have it excessively easy.

First of all, the timer is in real life days, not in game days. Also, it counts just the time you actually play, not the overall time.
Also, purple talismans are permanent.

In any case, no one forces you to use talismans. But for the ones that want to invest on them, they're really well thought of. They encourage a flourishing economy and commerce between gatherers and crafters, they give good bonuses, but not overwhelming, and they integrate crafted items with drops seamlessly, without drops or crafted equipment being useless alternatively as in other MMORPG.

[Typoko]

Hi!

I just came by to say it as it seems that 50% of the people in this thread have missed the point of talisman making. Green bags and higher drop a green or higher item. This is great for talisman making AS YOU CAN SALVAGE IT. At lowlevels renown gear is easy to salvage, but it gets pretty costly afterwards. (Not spending 15 silvers for 1 salvage...)

[FalseMyrmidon]

Oh goodness, the whine. People are too used to have it excessively easy.

First of all, the timer is in real life days, not in game days. Also, it counts just the time you actually play, not the overall time.
Also, purple talismans are permanent.

In any case, no one forces you to use talismans. But for the ones that want to invest on them, they're really well thought of. They encourage a flourishing economy and commerce between gatherers and crafters, they give good bonuses, but not overwhelming, and they integrate crafted items with drops seamlessly, without drops or crafted equipment being useless alternatively as in other MMORPG.

I wouldn't have thought to use the "No one forces you to use it" comeback without addressing any of the points I made (I didn't even mention the timers). I'm done with this thread, no use debating anything with a well known fanboy.

[Abriael]

I wouldn't have thought to use the "No one forces you to use it" comeback without addressing any of the points I made (I didn't even mention the timers). I'm done with this thread, no use debating anything with a well known fanboy.

Lol. It's always fun to see people use the word "fanboy" when they have nothing else to counter solid arguments with. Maybe you should try being more informed (IE: trying it extensively) before commenting a system. For example you don't even know that talismans do grow in vendor price as they grow in level and power. :rolleyes:

[FalseMyrmidon]

Lol. It's always fun to see people use the word "fanboy" when they have nothing else to counter solid arguments with. Maybe you should try being more informed (IE: trying it extensively) before commenting a system. For example you don't even know that talismans do grow in vendor price as they grow in level and power. :rolleyes:

http://www.wardb.com/profile.aspx?id=14094

[Abriael]

http://www.wardb.com/profile.aspx?id=14094

And you didn't even notice that vendor price increases? :rolleyes:

[FalseMyrmidon]

Because I wasn't vendoring the higher quality ones?

[Nerissa]

Talisman Making pulls from:

Apothecary
Scavenging
Salvaging
Cultivation

Apothecary pulls from:

Cultivation
Butchering
Scavenging


The best part? Butchering isn't even necessary to level up Apoth. Neither is scavenging, scavenging just gives you water and soil, butcher gives you gore (nutrient), neither of which is necessary to level. So really to level Apoth, all you need is...

Cultivation.



One profession REQUIRED to level against FOUR PROFESSIONS REQUIRED TO LEVEL.


It's quite clear that Apothecary is many vast leagues easier to level than Talisman. This needs to be fixed, and the fix isn't to nerf Apoth but to buff Talisman so it is easier to level and not as painful as it is currently.

[Nerissa]

Oh goodness, the whine. People are too used to have it excessively easy.

First of all, the timer is in real life days, not in game days. Also, it counts just the time you actually play, not the overall time.
Also, purple talismans are permanent.

In any case, no one forces you to use talismans. But for the ones that want to invest on them, they're really well thought of. They encourage a flourishing economy and commerce between gatherers and crafters, they give good bonuses, but not overwhelming, and they integrate crafted items with drops seamlessly, without drops or crafted equipment being useless alternatively as in other MMORPG.


In this forum, there is a screenshot of an epic talisman made from skill level 25 epic materials that is 12 wounds, no timer.

120 health, no timer. From skill level 25 items. Epic, but still. Thinking about that scares me as to how powerful epic talismans at 40 will be. If they are powerful, very powerful, you won't have a choice. Get them or get rolled.

[Abriael]

One profession REQUIRED to level against FOUR PROFESSIONS REQUIRED TO LEVEL.


You need only salvaging to level. All the other ingredients are bought from vendors.

[Salexia]

The one thing im really confused about is that I though all green item's would be Salvageable, but it seems not!? I have magic boots, necklaces, etc.. which simply refuse to salvage!? :confused:

[Abriael]

It seems that belts aren't salvageable in the current build. A few other items seem to be bugged, but I managed to salvage more or less the 95% of everything that's not a belt.

[Rizem]

Clearly there's a lot of work still to go into talisman and it isn't as finished as it should be, but i disagree with one thing people keep saying.

Why does tali and apoc be equal? why should they be as expensive/time consuming/easy as each other? It's the whole "omg nerf it's not fair" mindset again where everything in all aspects must be equal or life isn't fair.

I see two choices, a nice casual skill you can play around with and get instant benefits for yourself regardless of class, in apothacary.

or a skill that takes more time and effort without the instant pay off, but over all will create the more powerfull effects, this is talisman.

Concent is fine to me, just talisman needs work for the obvious issues around vendors, skill levels etc.

[moomtazz]

I noticed someone posting about going back to PQs and farming loot bags. Does say, a level 18 BO have a better chance at finishing first than a level 5 shaman in a level 5 PQ? If so I can't see how needing to farm PQs could be good for the game.

[Ymir]

I have to say this thread has got me excited about talisman making. I hope everyone thinks it's too hard, then I can be the best talisman maker on my server.

[MattRiddle]

I picked up Scavenging, because i love the idea of being able to loot dead bodies...wow that came out wrong...anyways, I ended up with some blues and purple talisman items and thought it be great to learn that skill so I could make some (hopefully) good talismans.

So I picked up the skill and went to make an item. I looked at the four slots, four different items needed. I looked at the 50+ talisman items I had gotten through Scavenging and they were all Curios. I still needed 4 more items to even make a single Talisman, 4 items I didn't have a single one of! 5 different items to make a talisman! That is just stupid difficult.

I found out that the trainer (the Hedge Wizard...who'da thunk?) sold 3 of the items. So I bought one of each and proceeding back to the Talisman creating thing. I tried to put in the 4 items I had, and it wouldn't let me because I didn't have a fragment. Fragment? What the heck is a fragment? I went back to the Hedge Wizard, and he doesn't sell Fragments. I went to the merchant, no fragments. Where the HECK do I get fragments?

I gave up soon after and just logged out. I don't have a guild, I don't even have a friend I know in real life in the game. I just bought the game because it looked fun. And I am having fun with the game, but I think it's ABSURD that the game force you to know others with the other items before you can do jack squat.

What am I going to do now? Try to find a Guild or someone with the new Fragments? I tell you what I am not going to do. I am not going to waste my time doing this RIDICULOUS job. I'm going to go sell all my non-blue/purple talisman JUNK and just wait till I get to the Auction House to sell everything else.

Waste of Time.

[Salexia]

Unfortunately the only way to get fragments that I know of is by Magical Salvaging, however, if you take that you can't get any other items other than vendor bought stuff. :rolleyes:

[katiepult]

It comes down to this, any craft where you can easily outlevel the items you need to craft with, is flawed.

I love talismans. I can live with the timed talismans. I can live with the craft needing to take so many items to make one timed one.

I do not think it's reasonable that I have to have alts all take magical salvaging so they can break down their gear and HOPE they get a fragment so they can send it to my main. My main is only 15. MY main has gotten MAYBE 25% fragment return on salvaging. Most of those fragments end up being lvl 25 salvaging to use.

[katiepult]

Unfortunately the only way to get fragments that I know of is by Magical Salvaging, however, if you take that you can't get any other items other than vendor bought stuff. :rolleyes:

Actually, I FINALLY came across one today off of a bat. 1. In 15 levels.

[katiepult]

I noticed someone posting about going back to PQs and farming loot bags. Does say, a level 18 BO have a better chance at finishing first than a level 5 shaman in a level 5 PQ? If so I can't see how needing to farm PQs could be good for the game.

It's not good for the game. Which is why there is a random element to the scoring system thankfully. Too bad that 18 BO is always going to get highest contribution tho and get a huge bonus.

I wish there was a negative "bonus" to your score if you're 6+ levels higher than the PQ mobs you're fighting. Like say...2000

[shadessls]

Why would an 18 go to the level 5 pq????? LOL what a dumby. You can buy a de'able item for 3 silver. Dude is wasting his time.:rolleyes:

[Mug elbbub]

As it stands TM is just a way to own your money with little return. I have gotten lvl 45 with the help of three friends, and Even with their help I'm out leveling my prof and taking a huge hit to my gold. It should be three items to make one crappy taly and 5 to make a better one and up from there with quality of items used. I can't Imagine failing on a epic item for a salvage. Its just silly right now. The problem isn't Instant gratification, its a crafting skill that feels like r.ape not to get good items but just to level it up.

[Abriael]

As it stands TM is just a way to own your money with little return. I have gotten lvl 45 with the help of three friends, and Even with their help I'm out leveling my prof and taking a huge hit to my gold. It should be three items to make one crappy taly and 5 to make a better one and up from there with quality of items used. I can't Imagine failing on a epic item for a salvage. Its just silly right now. The problem isn't Instant gratification, its a crafting skill that feels like r.ape not to get good items but just to level it up.

Making the right talismans one can definately make a penny, and/or make very useful talismans for himself. I have no empty talisman in my armor, and the result is noticeable, and can sell the ones that I don't need for more than I spent on them.

[RealTimeForce]

Thought i'd read this thread as i have chosen TM with Salveging.
Have i made a mistake as alot of people here seem to have gone for scavenging.
Will getting essences for TM be as useful as getting fragment for TM?
I'm getting a little confused now, not that i mind the hard work or challenge like, but it seems to be getting in the way of questing and progressing with the game.
( i already find RvR and PQ very distracting, in a good way ofcourse, lol).

[tester13]

Imo, as game gets older and economy settles, tm will be easier to level up. Problem with tm is you need fragments = salgaving, then you need curios =scavenging, and you need gold essence = apothecary (+scavenging+cultivation) so basically you need everything except butchering.

So, atm, you either make alts, have friends/guild send you this stuff or you buy them from ah. Unfortunately economy is still new an ah is mostly unuseable. People wanting 10s per lvl 25 green curio is just silly when a talisman you'd make with it probably wouldn't sell for 10s itself.

Once the economy gets better and people actually understand that just because they scavenged a purple lvl 1 curio doesn't mean it's worth 1 gold, level'ing tm will be easier.

That and if mythic ever decides to put tm containers above lvl 1 back in the game lol.

PS: So, yesterday I got spamed with buy gold tell, 10g for 13$. 13$ is about 1 hour's worth of wage (or less, or more =p) and obviously you can't get 10g in an hour, couldbe even hard to pull off at 40. So, sepnd a few hours worth of your wage buying gold, and hit auction house =p level'ing TM will be fun and easy.
great job mythic :) another game mechanic that favors buying gold :confused:

[Caldenfor]

Umm... I have never been short on money. I had plenty enough for my rank 20 mount and I get gold faster than I need to spend it. This while even paying 5% towards guild for guild heraldry. Buying gold is still just as worthless as ever and says a lot more about the person than the game.

Caldenfor

[Rizem]

I think right now magic salvaging is the only viable option. The real shortage is fragments and to a lesser extent essences. Your average casual player is scavenging and selling curio's on the AH, he is not salvaging and so not selling fragments or essences.

There's also the balancing issue where you aren't getting the right fragments at the right level and enough of them, that can be tweaked no problem and isn't a major issue, if you need more go back and farm, thus are the joys of an early release skill.

As the rednamed "defo not a fanboi" mentioned, you can use all +5/6 2 day talismans on your gear and if you're going the renown gear route that's a big difference with 4 more stats per item than a crappy +2.

Also yes it's a money sink, but nearly all trade skills in mmo's are money sinks to level with only 1 or 2 niche products that make any money.
If you come from wow consider apoth to be like alchy, you can pretty much make usefull stuff the whole time with no real investment or grinding needed.
Now consider talisman to be armor or weaponsmith, or a craftskill from EQ or UO or SWG or whatever, you blow a ton of cash to level, get to a high skill THEN you profit if you have the business mind, or you just become a resource for your friends and yourself that others don't have.

[RealTimeForce]

So, atm, you either make alts, have friends/guild send you this stuff or you buy them from ah. Unfortunately economy is still new an ah is mostly unuseable. People wanting 10s per lvl 25 green curio is just silly when a talisman you'd make with it probably wouldn't sell for 10s itself.



As is usual for these sorts of games the economy will makes it's own level. It'll either be alot higher than what people thought or alot lower. It's far to early to tell what price is right for anything yet. The laws of supply and demand will over rule anything that we all say here. Anything is worth what people will pay.

PS: So, yesterday I got spamed with buy gold tell, 10g for 13$. 13$ is about 1 hour's worth of wage (or less, or more =p) and obviously you can't get 10g in an hour, couldbe even hard to pull off at 40. So, sepnd a few hours worth of your wage buying gold, and hit auction house =p level'ing TM will be fun and easy.
great job mythic :smile: another game mechanic that favors buying gold :confused:

Hmmm, it's nothing to do with how much an hour you're on. It's more to do with that sureley you have better things to do with you're money than spend it on a game (as good as it is) to try and impress people that you dont even know and will probably never meet. I'd suggest you go out down the town with your real life mates and spend it having a damn good time in real life. Just my opion.

[tester13]

Don't plan to buy gold lol. But, if you have a choice between farming gold to power level tm, or buying it (for 1/10 the time it'd take you to farm it) why would you spend 10x the time to get the same result?

Meh, I'll just leave tm and level it when I can, but with the ah prices for side ingridients needed for tm it can't really be kept at your level unless you have friends/guildies throwing those items at you.

[Caldenfor]

Because buying gold is for sissies?

It isn't an in game mechanic so therefore I see it as... well... cheap/cheating/whatever. If you don't want to play the game, don't. I am a firm believer that if you can't do it with your own abilities and the help of your friends, you shouldn't do it. Buying gold is just bad.

Caldenfor

[Nabob]

Sorry, I'm new here. All I see is Adrieal (sorry if that's not the right spelling) defending a pretty poorly implemented crafting program. While I agree with your points about a good economy I think that there are some pretty big holes in talisman making at the moment. And I'm not just whining because I want it easy.

Honestly, how good is the in game crafting when I'm prompted to alt tab out to try to find out how the heck you make your first talisman. If anything, my biggest problem with it right now is that it's NOT CLEAR whatsoever what to do. It's very intimidating when you're level 4 and you pick up talisman making and there are 5 fields to fill with very specific different items and no explanation at all in game. Having to visit a forum with questons about how to even attempt to make your first item is imo a problem.

Maybe the talisman making craft is great, but it's not simple enough to get started. Even after reading 2 pages of this I'm still not sure how to find a fragment without taking salvaging myself. I haven't seen one on the AH yet (could be bad luck, of course,) and I don't even know what they would be called. Are they actually just called "fragment of bleh?" or are they shards of some kind. I'm just wondering if I'm just missing it.

[CaptMac]

Sorry, I'm new here. All I see is Adrieal (sorry if that's not the right spelling) defending a pretty poorly implemented crafting program. While I agree with your points about a good economy I think that there are some pretty big holes in talisman making at the moment. And I'm not just whining because I want it easy.

Honestly, how good is the in game crafting when I'm prompted to alt tab out to try to find out how the heck you make your first talisman. If anything, my biggest problem with it right now is that it's NOT CLEAR whatsoever what to do. It's very intimidating when you're level 4 and you pick up talisman making and there are 5 fields to fill with very specific different items and no explanation at all in game. Having to visit a forum with questons about how to even attempt to make your first item is imo a problem.

Maybe the talisman making craft is great, but it's not simple enough to get started. Even after reading 2 pages of this I'm still not sure how to find a fragment without taking salvaging myself. I haven't seen one on the AH yet (could be bad luck, of course,) and I don't even know what they would be called. Are they actually just called "fragment of bleh?" or are they shards of some kind. I'm just wondering if I'm just missing it.

Spot on.

With reference to my own lack of understanding you're one step ahead of me, I'm a lvl 12 Shaman who still cant find the guy to teach me TM.

[Firewalker]

Sorry, I'm new here. All I see is Adrieal (sorry if that's not the right spelling) defending a pretty poorly implemented crafting program. While I agree with your points about a good economy I think that there are some pretty big holes in talisman making at the moment. And I'm not just whining because I want it easy.

Honestly, how good is the in game crafting when I'm prompted to alt tab out to try to find out how the heck you make your first talisman. If anything, my biggest problem with it right now is that it's NOT CLEAR whatsoever what to do. It's very intimidating when you're level 4 and you pick up talisman making and there are 5 fields to fill with very specific different items and no explanation at all in game. Having to visit a forum with questons about how to even attempt to make your first item is imo a problem.

Maybe the talisman making craft is great, but it's not simple enough to get started. Even after reading 2 pages of this I'm still not sure how to find a fragment without taking salvaging myself. I haven't seen one on the AH yet (could be bad luck, of course,) and I don't even know what they would be called. Are they actually just called "fragment of bleh?" or are they shards of some kind. I'm just wondering if I'm just missing it.

How to find out how your profession works:

Mouseover the fields.
Go to a merchant.
Buy The essence, the gold, the container and watches.
Search this forum for the way to get fragments.
Make alt to D/E (disenchant) your found greens.
Enjoy leveling VERY, VEEERY slowly.

k?

(Yes, I, too, think it was a bad decision to take TM instead of apothecary...but oh well, who cares)

[boomercash]

I picked up TM at level 5 and I will have to agree it's pretty hard to level. I made an alt for scavenging and that really has started to help fill out the holes but in the end I feel that the whole point is to encourage me to join a guild.

I'm not going to join a guild yet as I want to let the guilds sorta settle in a bit first and frankly my main goal right now is that next level. Now I would agree that my TM is providing very little benefit to me at this time but I see some really fun times ahead.

Here's my advice.

1. You are flat going to need scavenging as well as salvaging in order to skill TM.
2. the only ways I know of to do this are,
A. Make one ore more alts all with scavenging. (you only need 1 person to salvage)
B. join a guild to get donations.
C. spend gold buying items to salvage.

Here's how it seems to work to me.

From green or better drops you can get curio items and magic essence. (2 of the items you need to craft Talisman Making or TM) Only magical salvaging however will get you fragments. In other words it's gotta be a green non acc. item WITH stats on it.

I have had it fail in salvaging exactly every other time I salvage. Now I don't know if that's just luck but it's true. Whenever I have gotten a blue item I did not need, (got 3 and only needed 1) I waited until I had a failure and then did the blue item right after.

Also whenever it fails you will get the magic essence stuff, (usually more than 1)when it succeeds you get a fragment and more magic essences. Once again I would point out the fragments only drop from greens or better WITH stats on them like strength or something.

My son has done some Apothecary and I saw that when he hit skill 80 higher containers became available to him from his vendor but I don't know if that holds true for TM.

In the end though I would have to say this. I'm not concerned about my TM at this point. I have not gotten very far with it and have not really tried to keep it up with my level even though I've only gotten to level 12 so far but I am at TM level 18 and don't feel to frustrated. I think the point for me is that I did not pick up TM to benefit me while I level. I've got a whole bag of pots from my son and I figure there's gonna be a lot of AP out there pretty darn soon cuz it's so darn easy to lvl. So I almost always have a pot to give me +20 str and 300+ armor plus healing pots and fire breath and lord knows what else is coming. I don't think I even need those really. Finding my quests is simple. I run smack into public quest areas every time I turn around and the RVR stuff is just NEAT. I level praticaly just from breathing in and out while logged in for heavens sakes.

I think EVERYONE is going to have potions coming out of their ears and I am going to patiently level my TM not trying to benefit me while I level but designed so that when I get to end game you folks are going to have a real problem with me. :)

Just my 2 cents.

[cptndunsel]

Yes, exactly.

Drops to salvage are almost non-existant compared to scavaging and drops for apothocary.

# of essence needed to make a fragment is too high and I've not seen many frags drop as loot, so this whole thing goes very very slow.

By the time you can make something (wow - I've made a whole 2 items to-date) you have outleveled the ability and/or the ability is so trivial its really of no value.

I think I may switch skills to scavaging and potion making - very easy to level both of those.

[Nabob]

How to find out how your profession works:

Mouseover the fields.
Go to a merchant.
Buy The essence, the gold, the container and watches.
Search this forum for the way to get fragments.
Make alt to D/E (disenchant) your found greens.
Enjoy leveling VERY, VEEERY slowly.

k?

(Yes, I, too, think it was a bad decision to take TM instead of apothecary...but oh well, who cares)

Thanks for the tip.... /sigh...

Also thanks for the patronizing tone for no good reason. I guess I'm a moron because when trying to craft my first item in an MMO my normal steps don't include searching forums to figure out what's what and making an alt to get another profession (that I don't even know I need.)

I mean why would I think the designers would/should make it simple for people to grasp what needs to be done in game without making alts with every profession and/or reading forums.

Wow...

[boomercash]

Ok first off I'm probably no where near normal, having a tendency to fly off the handle over such things as the store being out of cheeto's But these names are killin me.

I think someone who worked on this game got what I like to call The Adam Complex.

You know, there's ole Adam n God tells him to name everything right? So he's doing pretty good ok. He's got rocks n chickens n what not and then he starts gettin a lil tired and along comes ole Platypus and BAM naming conventions are tossed out the window.

It's these trainers that are getting to me. Bucther HAH ok good one bet he teaches something about choppin creatures up. Indeed! he does! Scavenger, HAH easy one comon guys I coulda figured that one out drunk. And we got salvager's n cultivators. Nice names I like em. Hey who's this guy? Hedge wizard? You gotta take care of hedges in this game? Ok he teaches talisman making but I don't get it. Hmm lets see talismans are magical and he's a wizard? Ok you Warhammer fanat's can someone who knows warhammer lore PLEASE tell me why one guy has a different kinda name? Why does the hedge wizard NEED to be the guy that teaches talisman making? I just know this has got to be a lore isssue cuz otherwize why have one guy with such an odd title that seems unrelated to what he is doing?

Come on folks fix me up here so I can sleep at night.

[Saiura]

Many questions here are answered in the http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Talisman_Making . This is true for many other threads too. Please visit that page. If you see information that should be listed (like the names of the Hedge Wizards - we've got half of them listed by name, just need other races to fill in the rest) add it!

[afastrunner]

I like the system. If you dont' ignore it and save your money. Use said money to buy talismans from me later.

[Shadey]

I had the following problems with Talisman Making

#1 I searched everywhere for the trainer, and didn't find it untill someone told me that they're called "hedge wizards" (huh?)
#2 I've been saving my gold up to buy a mount, and not spend it on leveling a craft. By the time you hit level 20 it was very difficult to find items to salvage and make. I also forgot that I could just buy cheap renown gear. (also defeats the purpose of saving up for a mount)
#3 Curios and other mats are extremely expensive to buy from the AH. I hope I can find a scavenging buddy really soon.
#4 They take up a crazy amount of bag space.

[LawLessOne]

Ditto afastrunner.

If Talisman Making is too frustrating for you, nix it, pick up Apothecary and latter on when you become rich, buy all your Talismans from others.

I find it ludicrious that people believe that every single aspect of any game should be made to appeal to everyone. If you dont like something, find something you do like.

[BlackWarder]

O.k it's late and I haven't read all of this thread so if I'm saying somthing that all ready been said please accept my apology.

For all of you who say that Talismans don't worth the time and money that you spend with them, I had elemental ress talismans that gave me 70% damage reduction from elemental, and honestly if I had more talismans slots I would have bumped my toughnnes to get mt damage reduction some where around 85%!

I admit that it took me a while to find out how to make them and I didn't wrote down how I made the +60 elemental ress one so tough luck to me but it was worth it! just charging into a group of 3 BW and staying allive forever probably spawn a "nerf chosen!!!!" thread somwhere, lol :mrgreen:.

just my 2 cents

Warder

[Nerissa]

It seems that belts aren't salvageable in the current build. A few other items seem to be bugged, but I managed to salvage more or less the 95% of everything that's not a belt.


Actually, belts are 'funny'. Some can be salvaged and some can't.

[Ilmoran]

Ok first off I'm probably no where near normal, having a tendency to fly off the handle over such things as the store being out of cheeto's But these names are killin me.

I think someone who worked on this game got what I like to call The Adam Complex.

You know, there's ole Adam n God tells him to name everything right? So he's doing pretty good ok. He's got rocks n chickens n what not and then he starts gettin a lil tired and along comes ole Platypus and BAM naming conventions are tossed out the window.

It's these trainers that are getting to me. Bucther HAH ok good one bet he teaches something about choppin creatures up. Indeed! he does! Scavenger, HAH easy one comon guys I coulda figured that one out drunk. And we got salvager's n cultivators. Nice names I like em. Hey who's this guy? Hedge wizard? You gotta take care of hedges in this game? Ok he teaches talisman making but I don't get it. Hmm lets see talismans are magical and he's a wizard? Ok you Warhammer fanat's can someone who knows warhammer lore PLEASE tell me why one guy has a different kinda name? Why does the hedge wizard NEED to be the guy that teaches talisman making? I just know this has got to be a lore isssue cuz otherwize why have one guy with such an odd title that seems unrelated to what he is doing?

Come on folks fix me up here so I can sleep at night.

In most fantasy RPG settings, Hedge Wizard is a term for someone who dabbles in magic but is generally not a very skilled magic user. They tend to dabble in either fairly low power spells, or magical trinkets. Not really a Warhammer specific thing.

As to why they decided they had to name them something other than simply what they do, I dunno. But the name itself does make sense.

[elmuerte]

PS: So, yesterday I got spamed with buy gold tell, 10g for 13$. 13$ is about 1 hour's worth of wage (or less, or more =p) and obviously you can't get 10g in an hour, couldbe even hard to pull off at 40. So, sepnd a few hours worth of your wage buying gold, and hit auction house =p level'ing TM will be fun and easy.Or spend your thirteen bucks on some quality beer (Guinness) and share it with your RL friends...

As far as TM being ridiculously difficult and requiring so much more than other professions, I say "meh." It might be harder to level but I think the payoff will be that much greater at the end... as far as things that should be improved, all I'd suggest are tooltips telling you if an item can or cannot be salvaged and what level is required, and telling you whether crafting a certain talisman will give you a level or not... I'm still a bit puzzled over that (made three or four last night using lvl 25 fragments, skill remained at 36)

[Zyxtl]

I will be the first one to agree with everyone that said that Talisman making is a horrible pain. However, even though i spent huge amounts of time and gold on the skill i am now a wellknown Talisman maker on my server and people come to me all the time and pay well for those high end talismans. The tradeoff is well worth it and knowing i stuck it out and got through it feels like a real accomplishment.

All i can say to you guys that are having trouble is to stick to it and you will see great rewards at the end. If you can't handle it then go do one of the eaiser crafting skills. Please don;t advocate making it easier though as that would really ruin another challenging aspect of the game

[Teldara]

I can make 20g a day if I PVP half level. just about 1G per PVP Quest turn in.

I waste just about 20-30g a day TM alone. I have stacks and stacks of items ready to be used.

[blackweb]

Talisman making sucks.

[Cyspeth]

My gf is very into crafting, she has worked on Apoth and TS for sometime, it has effected her leveling up, it has effected her gold income seriously. She's got alt's going, mailing things, everything about the Tradeskills right now seems like nothing but a timesink with 0 reward.

I keep telling her that Mythic will have to fix the tradeskills and then it will pay off, but the posts that make the games tradeskills out to be working ok are just plain false.

My gf has devoted lots of time and effort, she found out about farming low level pq's because she ran into a group of higher level players all doing the Dark Elf PQ over and over and found out that was how they were getting alot of the mats they needed.

It doesn't matter how the system is setup, it doesn't matter how people are "Supposed" to find mats and work up a tradeskill. What matters in a MMO is how it actually works in practice. If in practice people farm the 1st PQ in the game for a faction for hours because to level up the tradeskills in your game it is the fastest most effective way the player base has found to do it, well then you have a problem because the game system is not working like it was meant to.

The game is great, but the tradeskill systems are NOT fun as said in the crafting podcast which I showed to my GF to get her more excited about the game.

Defending them isn't going to do anything but irritate people, denying that they have problems isn't going to help anything. A busted game system is a busted game system. My gf's enjoyment of MMO's is strongly based off her enjoyment of crafting.

All Warhammer is doing is giving her a headache as well as a lot of the people on the crafting forums as well from what I've read.

It isn't the end of the world, but the game seriously needs a large craft fix patch with some changes. At least it does if Mythic want tradeskills to be fun as they stated.

Cyspeth