Pre-Order "Confusion"

[Kaijin]

Originally Posted by Drintar

But um seriously how about that closed beta access for CE orders idea? huh? huh? hehe I know I know but ya gotta admit all the people upset would go I'm in closed beta? Whhaaaaaaaaaaggggg and totally forget this even happened

I want a Paul Barnett bobblehead doll that shouts random phrases....

[Druchii Druchii]

Well from my point of view I got the CE for the whole pakage not just the headstart/open beta, so in general it doesn't bother me, same for my wifes copy (although we will probably sell her novel, art book and fig as we won't need two.) However I will be eager to discover what the bonus 'item' is to make up for this change, anythings a bonus. (I'm betting the cards.. hehehe.)

On a side note I am quite impressed some one like Mark is in here facing flak and trying answer folks questions, after dealing with other companies forums, thats virtually unheard of.

[Regis]

All I want to know is why EU players who preorder SE won't get into the beta :/

[Agronack]

If it's $80, I doubt they would charge that much just for open beta and a head start. There must be another reason for it being so much, and there is. I don't think I would pay 80 bucks to just get into open beta and head start. I actually like the other items, and its not like they're going to manufacture a million of them, so it's called "Collectors Edition" for a reason.

[Mbj]

Originally Posted by loopgru

Okay, neutral corners.

Mark, people are upset because this looks for all the world like an intentional deception designed to get more people to order the premium CE instead of the standard edition; I know in my case, the major reasons we (my fiancee and I) chose to pre-order the CE were the head start and the guaranteed open beta access.

In my case, if I'd known that the standard edition would offer those benefits, I would not have ordered the CE, and more than likely would have waited *much* longer to preorder (until I'd seen the game in a much more polished state at least, and possibly until after I see it in action at PAX).

I will take your word for it that this was all a big miscommunication- Mythic has a history of being very open and honest with their customers, and, taking that into account, I'll be happy to give you the benefit of the doubt.

That said, based if nothing else on the reaction you're seeing here, a few things should be clear.

First off, the distinctions you thought you'd made perfectly clear to all of us...weren't. No one I know of interpreted the hype surrounding the preorders as you have presented it. No one on WHA, no one in real life, no one in any other MMO.

Second, I think a lot of this was touched off by your initial response. I mean this constructively, but it took a long time to go from "that's not how we meant it, it's weird that you feel that way, if you don't like it then cancel your preorder" to "I'm sorry for the miscommunication, it was unintentional."

Even now, while I sincerely appreciate the apology (especially by comparison to treatment I've received from other nameless companies in this respect), it is incomplete- a real apology acknowledges what happened (check), takes responsibility (semi-check), and offers a way by which it will be made right (no check).

So, really, that's where I'm at. I want to know how this will be made right. Are you going to talk to your pre-order partners to make sure there's no hangup for those who want to cancel their CE preorder? Are you willing or able to talk about this mysterious additional CE benefit with us, to address the feeling that what people ordered has been devalued relative to what it was?

I think you're a good guy, never moreso than today, but I'd really like to hear how this will be made right.

Cheers,

Loopgru / Matt

While I understand and agree with some of what you're saying I have to disagree on one point and that is the "making it right" thing. When I look at this issue it really boils down to two separate bits of stuff.

Bit 1 - The advertised content in the CE

Bit 2 - The advertised content in the CE Pre-Order Program

Now, as to Bit 1. Nothing has changed other than we are hoping to do something very special for our CE customers but if I talk about it today and we can't pull it off, this stuff will just start all over again and frankly, I've been called enough names and insulted in the last few months here to last me a lifetime. I've been a member of this community since pretty much day one and have spent uncountable hours reading and talking to the fans here. And while I don't need pats on the back, praise or other such stuff, the invectives that have been hurled my way here lately have gotten way out of hand. However, as I said here almost three years ago, this stuff is happening right on time as expected so I'm not surprised. It happens to all MMO developers this close to launch. So, I ask you to forgive me if I am unwilling to spill the beans on a surprise that we were working on just in case we can't pull it off. I wouldn't have said anything about it but if at least I didn't hint at it and people canceled, then people would yell at me again saying "OMG, if I had known that I wouldn't have canceled, screw you Jacobs!" So, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. All I know is that if it was me and based on what I've read here today, I wouldn't cancel the CE PO. I would wait a couple of weeks (still loads of time to cancel if you hate the surprise) and then see if we deliver. But to get back on topic, all the special, unique and compelling in-game and real-life stuff that we advertised, pushed and talked about for the CE is still only in the CE. Whether it is the 12 quests, the quest rewards (items and titles), librams, toon heads, art book, miniature, etc. they are all in there and still exclusive to the CE.

Now as to Bit 2, The Pre-order program. Right now the POP gives you access to the HS (variable based on type), OB and 2 items. Since we have always, always talked about the OB as being open to more than the CE and that the CE guaranteed you access to the OB (which by definition means that it is open to other people), it is safe to say that nobody really has a right to scream foul there. As for those people who are saying that we said that we said that the only way to guarantee a slot in the OB was to get the PO, well, again we never said that. Our language is very clear on the point and it never says "The only guaranteed way to get into the open beta is to pre-order the CE. On our site it says "Be one of the first players to experience the glory of battle and the thrill of WAR when the open beta phase begins! " that is not the same thing as "The only way to get a guaranteed spot in the beta is to order the CE!" As to the in-game items, well, SE POs still get the 2 in-game items (again nothing is being taken away) but the CE POs get the two items + the 12 quests and the quest rewards (items) and the quest titles. So, even if you looked at it solely as CEs POs get access to 12 + 2 items and SE POs only get 2 items, how that means that the SE POs has almost all the same things as the CE POs is really way off base. Not the third bit, the HS is a bit more confusing. At the time we announced the CE, it was true that only the CE POs were getting into the HS because the SE program wasn't in place yet. So, while I understand being annoyed and even angry I also don't see why people are so upset. You'll still be able to get into the HS, we'll still have the right amount of servers (so they won't be overcrowded) and everybody who bought the CE POs will have time to prepare for the onslaught of opening day. While I have said, ad naseum, that I wish our wording had been crystal clear, it would have been hard to announce something that wasn't yet done or in place (the SE POs).

Now, on to the best point and one I agree with 100% and that is what we can do in terms of canceling your CE order. First, if you are going to play on the European servers and your canceling because you perceive that SEs will get access to the OB, don't, I've been told they won't. However, if you still want to cancel your CE in NA or Europe and your retailer won't let you, by all means let us know. If you are playing on the European servers, contact GOA and if you are on the NA servers, contact us and we'll talk to retailers to see what is going on. That's all I can say we can do at the present time simply because we haven't had a chance to talk to anybody about this yet but if you do cancel you'll be losing out on some in-game stuff as well as all the other good stuff. While it is true that some people who got codes that they shouldn't have, they are going to be real disappointed when they can't get the items they hoped to in the game (CD keys ftw).

So, that's it for me on this subject, I've answered all the questions and taken, quite frankly, all the nastiness I intend to (I don't mean you Loopgru, your post wasn't nasty in any way).

Mark

[Kaijin]

Originally Posted by Drintar

But um seriously how about that closed beta access for CE orders idea? huh? huh? hehe I know I know but ya gotta admit all the people upset would go I'm in closed beta? Whhaaaaaaaaaaggggg and totally forget this even happened

I want a Paul Barnett bobblehead that yells random phrases...

[kermitthefrog3]

Hold on? Eu players who Pre-order the Standard Edition WONT get into the OB and Headstart?

[Ibricidibri]

Originally Posted by Abaddoni

hear maybe this might help: ALL PREORDERS WILL GET IN OPEN BETA AND HEADSTART, meaning you're in and wont be wiped, you'll also get the items, just not the faces and extra quests (but that might change too, who knows).

This only seems to be the case for the US:

Originally Posted by Mbj

7) In Europe, the plan is for the OB to invite the CE POs customers but the SE POs will not get a special invitation.

[Mbj]

Originally Posted by kermitthefrog3

Hold on? Eu players who Pre-order the Standard Edition WONT get into the OB and Headstart?

They will get into the HS but not a guaranteed slot in the OB as far as I know.

Mark

[Ronnie2008]

Originally Posted by Dashel

..... On the other, people are QQing about ordering an excellent CE because they thought only they would be special and get into Open Beta and head start.

Cancel, and order the regular edition. Problem solved. ......

As people have continously said, it's not about being 'special' and being the only ones in Open beta and head start. It's about the fact that a lot of us thought our only option to get into the open beta and head start was to fork out the extra $50 which we did, only to find out now that standard edition pre-orders can get it too.

Also as I have stated, personally I'm out $20 if I cancel and re-order and many other's are in a similar position.

[Browncoat-WHA]

It's time to repeat those guidelines again, hooray!

Please note the following guidelines for discussion. Failure to comply will result in immediate infractions and possible suspension from the site.

Constructive Criticism is a Must - If you must post a criticism, please include suggestions for improvement or change. Be constructive and contributive in your posts concerning this issue.
No Attacks on Opinions - Everyone is entitled to a positive or negative opinion about this issue. If you must respond, do so cordially. Attacking someone for their opinion, either overtly or blatantly, will not be allowed. It's real easy to get into a bicker-fest and we don't want that in this thread.
No Nonsense Posts - If all you can do is offer a one-liner that contributes nothing to the discussion or makes a poor attempt at humor, don't post. We're looking for valuable discussion of the opinions here. Save the nonsense for PMs and IMs.
Respect - This is self-evident. If, even by giving feedback you cannot give the baseline level of decency and respect to the developers, the company, or each other, you will be dealt with.

Once again, the reason for these guidelines is NOT to stifle negative opinion, but to actually allow criticism as well as defense of this issue.

When we state these things in a crystal clear way, there is no excuse for us not to give immediate infractions and suspensions for repeat offenders. We're seeing some posts on the border here, so this bears repeating.

I'd like to thank those of you who've presented their opinions, negative and positive, in a constructive way. Those of you who haven't - well...things will just happen naturally...as in you'll naturally not be posting here for a period of time.

[Zythen]

Originally Posted by kermitthefrog3

Hold on? Eu players who Pre-order the Standard Edition WONT get into the OB and Headstart?

ou will get HS just not as big a HS as the CE but no OB

[kermitthefrog3]

Originally Posted by Mbj

They will get into the HS but not a guaranteed slot in the OB as far as I know.

Mark

I know your being bombarded with questions and angry complaints, but I would like to ask this.

1) If we don't get a garunteed place? do we get a larger chance or substitute? - Why don't we get the same bonuses as the US players?

2) a bit off-topic - Can we get Beta keys at Gameday 2008 in September - Birmingham?

[Jaga]

This is absolute B.S.

It was assumed by EVERYONE (and I mean everyone, with no confusion) that CE preorders were the only ones getting HS and OB.

If that is the case, you need to do one of three things:

1. Charge the same amount for non-CE preorders as you did for the CE preorders. We all know that the true value in the CE package is the OB and HS.
2. Double the length of the OB *and* the HS, and let CE preorder owners get in for the entire time, and non CE owners the latter half of the time.
3. Don't let non-CE preorders into OB or HS.

I will openly and honestly admit - this has SERIOUSLY shaken my confidence in Mythic as a gaming company. You guys are out here too reading the forums on a daily basis, and you KNEW what was being said by gamers the entire time you developed WAR. This is just a boot in the arse of true fans who ponied up and bought the CE, and trying to apologize without rectifying it is adding insult to injury.

FIX it - or start giving out refunds to CE buyers. Anything else is just plain fraud.

[LatukiJoe]

Originally Posted by Mbj

I've been a member of this community since pretty much day one and have spent uncountable hours reading and talking to the fans here.

Then did you ever notice that the community was under a certain impression regarding how the CE worked?

Thanks. No name calling here, but I do feel there's been a miscommunication we need to talk about before our relationship can move forward. Its not like we're breaking up or anything.