My IB low dmg

[Sammoo]

Originally Posted by Manuh

You're saying that Chosen > KotBS for group play.

All credibility lost.

Read his post history. He thinks maras are OP.

[Summoner]

Originally Posted by Sammoo

Read his post history. He thinks maras are OP.

It does not change the fact that 2h chosen is being the best offensive tank with lots of group utilities. If it goes to situations when you need to wear a shield then kobs looks slightly better.

[Fop]

Originally Posted by Manuh

You're saying that Chosen > KotBS for group play.

All credibility lost.

You always know you've won a debate when the other person has to resort to completely ignoring everything you say and instead spends their time undermine the poster rather than addressing the arguments.



In general play yes, perhaps not a WoW Arena-esq min/max duelling situation, but that's not what WAR is about.

But you agree that Chosen utterly outstrip everything else in every other context then?

[Fop]

Originally Posted by Sammoo

Read his post history. He thinks maras are OP.

See my first point in the above post.

Marauders aren't overpowered, but if they are buffed any more I think they would be, they are just in no way weak at all now (they are a very, very solid class) - except when compared to Choppas/Slayers in AoE output - but of course they are much less squishy than Choppas and especially Slayers and so can never have the same AoE power and be balanced.

Or are you saying Marauders are still weak? If so then how are they still weak?

[Manuh]

Originally Posted by Fop

You always know you've won a debate when the other person has to resort to completely ignoring everything you say and instead spends their time undermine the poster rather than addressing the arguments.



In general play yes, perhaps not a WoW Arena-esq min/max duelling situation, but that's not what WAR is about.

But you agree that Chosen utterly outstrip everything else in every other context then?

Utterly outstrip? Good god, you really don't like chosens do you?

I think my IB is harder to play efficiently but I can succeed just as well and pump out as much damage and take healers down 3x faster than my Chosen. I think Chosen is superior in solo (grudge mechanic brings them down a bit). I think to be an efficient DPS Chosen in T4 it still requires decent renown rank and to not be completely retarded (believe it or not there's still FotM Chosens running damage aura even though it breaks stagger). IB is still the top dog in 2vX, period. Slayer+IB=Sh** gets done.

Overall, I think Chosen is OP but I also think IB is. I think I've said this already but I don't see how you could possibly complain about your class.

[Kyuuri]

Originally Posted by Manuh

Utterly outstrip? Good god, you really don't like chosens do you?

I think my IB is harder to play efficiently but I can succeed just as well and pump out as much damage and take healers down 3x faster than my Chosen. I think Chosen is superior in solo (grudge mechanic brings them down a bit). I think to be an efficient DPS Chosen in T4 it still requires decent renown rank and to not be completely retarded (believe it or not there's still FotM Chosens running damage aura even though it breaks stagger). IB is still the top dog in 2vX, period. Slayer+IB=Sh** gets done.

Overall, I think Chosen is OP but I also think IB is. I think I've said this already but I don't see how you could possibly complain about your class.

Not getting into the whole Chosens vs IB argument. But from my knowledge damage auras like All Out Assault! doesn't break stagger. I would be very surprised if the same didn't apply to chosens version of the Aura. (Then it could be argued that using a str/tou/resist aura combination is preferable to str/damage/resist but that's beside the point).

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Kyuuri

Not getting into the whole Chosens vs IB argument. But from my knowledge damage auras like All Out Assault! doesn't break stagger. I would be very surprised if the same didn't apply to chosens version of the Aura. (Then it could be argued that using a str/tou/resist aura combination is preferable to str/damage/resist but that's beside the point).

Those auras now break stagger.... was in the last set of patch notes (possibly a hot fix).

[Fop]

Originally Posted by Manuh

Utterly outstrip? Good god, you really don't like chosens do you?

Nope I do, they are very, very fun, very, very easy and very, very powerful to play.

But saying that overall other tanks are as good as Chosen, is disingenuous to say the least.

Originally Posted by Manuh

I think my IB is harder to play efficiently but I can succeed just as well and pump out as much damage and take healers down 3x faster than my Chosen. I think Chosen is superior in solo (grudge mechanic brings them down a bit). I think to be an efficient DPS Chosen in T4 it still requires decent renown rank and to not be completely retarded (believe it or not there's still FotM Chosens running damage aura even though it breaks stagger). IB is still the top dog in 2vX, period. Slayer+IB=Sh** gets done.

IBers are much harder to play to a decent level, the average person is going to be a much "better" player with a Chosen than with an IBer - which always has to be factored into any balance discussion.

I'd certainly be interested to see your DPS parses on IBer and Chosen, especially for fights where you start out of combat with 0 Grudge.

Originally Posted by Manuh

Overall, I think Chosen is OP but I also think IB is. I think I've said this already but I don't see how you could possibly complain about your class.

So you think Chosen are overpowered? In that case what changes would you recommend?

[Byzantium]

Haha IBs crying about Chosens being way superior than them.

Please, go play a black guard or a black orc. I'm so damn sure you whiners don't play any other tanks but that 1 IB of yours.

You will just keep crying till IB > Chosen, owning every single gawdamn tank and then say to yourself, "That's what I call balance!"

I myself would admit, Chosens are good, decently easy to play. IBs, MAYBE not as good, but still way more superior than other tanks.

So yeah, go play more tanks before you start crying.

[dovnehund]

Originally Posted by Byzantium

Haha IBs crying about Chosens being way superior than them.

Please, go play a black guard or a black orc. I'm so damn sure you whiners don't play any other tanks but that 1 IB of yours.

You will just keep crying till IB > Chosen, owning every single gawdamn tank and then say to yourself, "That's what I call balance!"

I myself would admit, Chosens are good, decently easy to play. IBs, MAYBE not as good, but still way more superior than other tanks.

So yeah, go play more tanks before you start crying.

All in all KOTBS is better than IB, more group support.
SM do more damage than IB , but lack the support IB has.

The thing about chosen being OP is ALL about your freaking RAVAGE...nerf this a bit and you wont hear another complaint from me

[Drongol]

Originally Posted by Byzantium

Haha IBs crying about Chosens being way superior than them.

Please, go play a black guard or a black orc. I'm so damn sure you whiners don't play any other tanks but that 1 IB of yours.

You will just keep crying till IB > Chosen, owning every single gawdamn tank and then say to yourself, "That's what I call balance!"

I myself would admit, Chosens are good, decently easy to play. IBs, MAYBE not as good, but still way more superior than other tanks.

So yeah, go play more tanks before you start crying.

Okay, I'm trying to see your logic here.

Basically, the IB community, as a whole, is saying that Chosen are too strong.

You counter by saying that Ironbreakers are stronger than Blackguards and Black Orcs. Somehow, this is supposed to invalidate the first point?

...dangit, I just can't wrap my head around your counter argument. I fully admit that your point is correct--Ironbreakers are a damn sight better than BGs and BOs. I just don't see how that means anything when talking about the overpowered nature of Chosen.

Could you ellucidate?

[Manuh]

Originally Posted by Fop

So you think Chosen are overpowered? In that case what changes would you recommend?

Give us a viable S&B support spec and do an overall damage nerf. Luckily, you guys already have the best S&B support in the game.

[Fop]

Originally Posted by dovnehund

All in all KOTBS is better than IB, more group support.
SM do more damage than IB , but lack the support IB has.

The thing about chosen being OP is ALL about your freaking RAVAGE...nerf this a bit and you wont hear another complaint from me

Aye, that's the thing IBer are nothing like release 1.0 IBers and other classes are nothing like that either (and Tor Annroc isn't the issue it used to be ).

When you look at Order tank ratios these days, yes there are lots of IBers, but there's a good balance between 2hd and SnB IBers (in fact there maybe more SnB IBers these days than 2h IBers) and more to the point there are certainly as many (if not more) SMs running about the place and more KoTBS being played than either.

Originally Posted by Drongol

Okay, I'm trying to see your logic here.

Basically, the IB community, as a whole, is saying that Chosen are too strong.

You counter by saying that Ironbreakers are stronger than Blackguards and Black Orcs. Somehow, this is supposed to invalidate the first point?

...dangit, I just can't wrap my head around your counter argument. I fully admit that your point is correct--Ironbreakers are a damn sight better than BGs and BOs. I just don't see how that means anything when talking about the overpowered nature of Chosen.

Could you ellucidate?

Aye I still think BGs (don't have much experience with BOs so can't comment) suffer more from Chosen being so strong than any comparison with any Order tank.

BGs are actually quite good in many aspects, although they are a high maintenance class needing good gear, with a player with nicely set-up addons and that really trys to work them to their full potential.

But they are never going to be played be the masses of Destro even if you nerf every Order class into the ground, when the current Chosen is available to play instead.

Originally Posted by Manuh

Give us a viable S&B support spec and do an overall damage nerf. Luckily, you guys already have the best S&B support in the game.

Well they aren't exactly utterly terrible SnB, but fair enough.