Talisman Tier Guide. Enjoy!

[Karylet]

Click Here
You should bookmark this link if you're a serious talisman maker.

The Guide is Updated as of 1.1.0d
Below are known issues with Talisman Making & Salvaging, and instructions for my chart.

Known Issues:
1) The "May yet retain some power" label on some critically salvaged fragments has no effect on anything right now. Whatever "charm" is meant on the fragment is either unavailable to everyone or not yet implemented in the game.
2) Some fragment bugs exist; for example, salvaging for a skill 75 corporeal resist fragment may leave you with an unusable fragment.
3) Talisman making lower critical, "You made something better!" Only bumps 1 value, when the tier jumps are 16 value. This is an input error by Mythic, not a bug.

Instructions:
Value:
Mythic uses a very simple staircase formula for all their Talisman making components, +1 value for each step up all the way to the top. This is the left column on my chart, starting with the value 0 vendor "Fragile" fragments, and ending at the bottom with value 36, skill 200 purple items. Here is the entire value breakdown by component.
Essence: (1.1.0d changes)
There are nine essences, one for each skill requirement from 1 to 200. They are all blue in color, but are no longer worth what the chart would suggest. Mythic reduced all essence values by one, but neglected to change their text color to green in order to match this. So the first essence now values 2, and the last values 34.
Gold Dust: (1.1.0d changes)
These are white or green, so there are 18 different value gold dusts. Mythic increased all gold dust values by one, but neglected to change their text colors to green & blue in order to match this. So the first set of gold dusts now value 2 & 3, and the last value 34 & 35.
Curios:
Every color, there are 40 different value curios from 1 to 40. At skill 200 there are two sets of curios, and the higher value set is specifically labeled on my chart with names and values. This is the most versatile component, and the last item you should pick out in planning your formulas.
Fragments:
Massively complicated compared to the others, there are nearly 800 different fragments. The "Fragile" fragments sold by vendors are value 0, they will yield a +1 stat for 30 minutes talisman. These are for 'power-skilling' to 25, NOT for selling. There are standard fragments that follow the color chart, value 1 through 36, and there are upgrade fragments worth one extra, value 2 through 37. These upgrade fragments are obtained by salvaging criticals only, and are noted by a changed suffix. The suffix list is on the right side of my chart. Also, half of the salvage criticals will be labeled "may yet retain some power", which doesn't do anything right now, so just ignore it.
Talisman Tiers:
The second column shows the required value necessary for a skill 200 Talisman Maker to achieve each tier of talisman. Simply add the four component values together and the total tells what tier you will make. Most commonly, you will be going for 104 value for a +9 white, 120 value for a +13 green or +16 blue, or 144 value for a +20 purple.
Skill Level Vs. Required Value:
For talisman makers still skilling up, the required value chart will be too high. There are five brackets, 1-49, 50-99, 100-149, 150-199, and 200. At 200 the chart stands, but for every bracket lower you must add 1 value to succeed, +1 at 150-199, +2 at 100-149, +3 at 50-99, and +4 at 1-49. So a beginner with 1-49 skill, trying to make a tier 3 talisman, would need 28 value to succeed, whereas an artisan 200 skill talisman maker would need 24.
Artisan's Gift:
In each RvR lake there is a flag labeled Artisan's Gift that adds 10 to all your skill levels. If you breach a skill bracket you will in fact gain the +1 value from skill, so a 45+10 skill talisman maker will need +3 on the chart to make tiers, instead of +4. That crafter will also be able to use skill 50 components. This boon does not effect anything else, so at 200 skill there is no reason to get it anymore.
Common Example:
Salvage a rank 38-40 green item for a skill 175 white fragment and essence. Add a 150 skill white gold dust & 125 skill white curio, or a 150 skill white curio & 125 skill white gold dust, to come up with 106 value for a +9 talisman. 29+30+26+21 = 106 or 29+30+25+22 = 106
Skimping Example:
Salvage a rank 40 purple item for a skill 200 blue fragment and essence. Add a meager 150 white gold dust and 150 white curio to come up with 120 value for a +16 talisman. 35+34+26+25 = 120
Tier Bumping Example:
Salvage a rank 16 purple and crit "even better" for a skill 75 purple fragment; you want the best talisman possible from that lucky catch! It's value is 17, so add a 200 essence for 34 value, a 200 green curio for 34 value, and a 200 green gold dust for 35 value. 17+34+34+35 = 120

Anything else you want to know is probably on the HammerWiki, in this thread somewhere, or another thread of this forum! So good luck and enjoy

[Dejavoodoo]

I'll have to look at this when I have more time, but first glance, I didn't quite get it.

[Xilith]

How do the different fragment types for a given tier/rarity affect this? Is it just +1 points or something - giving the same bonus as a higher rarity but without affecting the rarity of the end product?

[Gzugzuu]

Originally Posted by Karylet

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/p...sa/TMGuide.jpg
You should bookmark this link if you're a serious talisman maker.

I discovered the value pattern Mythic uses for all talisman components and listed it all out for everyone. So, fragments, gold dust, curios, and essence all weigh the same, only skill and color matter. Total the four component values together to hit one of the minimum numbers listed, like 88 to get a tier 7 talisman.
An example: Salvage a low purple and crit for a skill 50 purple fragment, you want the best talisman possible from that. So its value is 12, add a 175 blue essence for 31 value, a 175 blue curio for 31 value, and a 175 green gold dust for 30 value. 12+31+31+30 = 104 (Tier 8 minimum requirement) Congrats, you made a +18 permanent purple talisman.
Hopefully everyone gets it, but I will check by later to clear any confusion.

*Important Note*
All information was gathered with regular fragments, the exact effect of "may yet retain some power" labeled fragments is not listed.

Huh??

More examples please!

When you say color matters, how so? Does the color of the fragment determine the color you are going to get in the Talisman Result column?

Besides limiting the materials you can use, how does your skill level factor in to this?

[Grigorion]

The color of the fragment decides the color of the final product.

If his numbers are correct (and they seem to be) that makes it into pretty viable to farm epics that are tier 2-3 for making high end talismans if you have all good stuff for the other creation slots.

Skill only makes it simpler to make good talismans since you can use higher end bits.
But the fragment color is the one and only important bit.

[Karylet]

Dejavoodoo: It took me days and days to understand it, but hopefully in my edit paragraph you can see the system more clearly.
Xilith: That's correct, like for Wounds fragments, since they are green they are one value higher than any other stat fragment, so you can cut back a value on your curio.
Gzugzuu: I gave a more normal, mid-level talisman maker example in my edit. Yes only the fragment color matters in the color of the talisman. And skill level doesn't seem to do anything else, besides limit your usable components. I don't find that I crit wildly on skill 100 fragments as a skill 200 talisman maker, it's all normal.

[Senta]

Okay so I understand that the left hand column is to used as a reference for all the components of the talisman you are making.


But how do you know which 'tier' talisman result to look up, is this based on the level of the shard you are using ???

or, do you simply add all the values from the lefhand colum and match it with the results (which i don't get).


Bottom line, I understand you've given some value to the rarity of the items used, but how do your end results differ from the simple table that wowbroli wrote up in his earlier thread ( http://www.warhammeralliance.com/for...d.php?t=164162 )

[Karylet]

Senta: All values weigh the same, add the four components together and if it is between 72 and 87 it will be a 7/10/13/16 talisman. The whole point of my chart is to look up the values and plan ahead on how to barely boost your talisman to the next rank.
As for plans based on skill level, if you want to do all that math go right ahead, I think 1-36 is much simpler than 1-200(+color). Here is the same thing written in both languages:
Fragment: 125 green - 125(+25) = 150
Essence: 125 blue - 125(+50) = 175
Gold Dust: 125 white - 125(+0) = 125
Curio: 125 green - 125(+25) = 150
Total 150+175+125+150 = 600, minimum requirement for tier 7, +8/11/14/17 talisman.

Fragment: 125 green = 22
Essence: 125 blue = 23
Gold Dust: 125 white = 21
Curio: 125 green = 22
Total 22+23+21+22 = 88, minimum requirement for tier 7, +8/11/14/17 talisman.

My way is easier, at least to me. And it also works with tier 1 mats.

[carraway]

Nice breakdown. Thanks for taking the time to compile this.

[Teriwyn]

Thanks for this breakdown. It's very helpful.


I tested a 118 Tier 8 craft, got "You make something better!" and it did not push to Tier 9 even though Tier 9 was only two points away. I'm not sure if this suggests bug, or if it suggests that "You make something better!" only gives you a single point on the scale you made.

[Unpeftable]

This flowchart is wrong on 1 thing:

200purple frag = 36
150 white dust = 25
150 white curio = 25
200 essence = 35
------------------------
total = 121, which should be rank 9 purple or +19, the maximum. However, I know +20 permas exist.


In other words, there is probably a purple-exclusive tier 10, that gives those +20, probably only accessible by crit on a max score craft

[Karylet]

Teriwyn: I had only got it to bump with 1 unders while I was confirming the tiers, like at 39 and 87 I got something better and a bump. If what you say is true and it doesn't bump a 2 under, then that's really sad and that 'crit' needs a buff!
Unpeftable: Tier 10 talismans exist? I've never seen them mentioned before, or seen one in auction on Monolith, but if they're real then that doesn't make my chart 'wrong' it's just incomplete. You would just need a value of 136 to make one, which would require at least 3 skill 200 components.
Could someone link a pic of a +11/14/17/20 talisman? Then I can add tier 10 into my chart when I finish my research on "may yet retain some power" fragments.

[MrGrimm999]

I don't think this is accurate. I tried to make the highest willpower tailisman I could

I used the following ingrediants:

Green level 175 fragment.
White level 150 gold dust.
Blue level 200 magic essence.
Blue level 200 curio.

According to your chart, this is:

30 +
25 +
35 +
35 =

125

This only made a green + 12 2d willpower talisman
I think the maximum level teir talisman that can be made depends on the color of the fragment. In my experience it works as follows:

White fragment = maximum of +9
Green fragment = maximum of +12
Blue fragment = maximum of + 15
Epic fragment = maximum of +19 (I have seen screenshots of +20)

Other than that I think your chart works, but it is limited to the color (not level) of the fragment. That is, an epic level 100 fragment, can still make +19 talismans.

[Karylet]

MrGrimm999: I'm sorry that happened, you may have placed the wrong essence or gold dust in by accident. I hate how they're all the same picture. But here is something I have done many, many times. Gather rank 38-39 green items, salvage for 175 white fragments and 175 essence, combine with 200 white gold dust and 150 blue curio, or 175 white gold dust and 175 blue curio, both come out to exactly 120 value. I have made dozens and dozens of white +10 talismans like this, and green +13 with green fragments and green curios, still at 120 value.
Fragments are also fairly complicated, there are +value crit fragments that aren't even labeled as such, like for ballistic skill if it ends in Anima instead of Core it's worth more, but bares no description. There are also bugged fragments people have mentioned; perhaps you had a bad fragment.

[nikolas]

So... If I have an epic fragment i'm always going to make a permanent talisman, but it's power will be determined by the other materials used?

So does this mean your always going to be able to skill up on base rank materials like salvaged essence and white fragments even if you use rank 1 curious and dust? Or does that end around 100-125 skill.