The WAH - 7/15/09 - The Great Mark Jacobs Disappearing Act

[PhoenixRed]

Note: Before participating in this thread, read this reminder.

If you've ever watched a magic act at work, there are always a few elements that you can count on. You can always count on the fact that the magic itself is a spectacle, very public and very visible. You can always bet on a mixture of precision, finesse, and risk, too - the execution is something that requires a certain agility, but one that must be done correctly, lest the act's secrets be exposed unwillingly, or worse yet, that people may come to harm. Lastly, you can always see that the magician is themselves a personality, whether they are willing to perform crazy endurance feats like a David Blaine, or create spectacles seemingly impossible, like a David Copperfield.

Mark Jacobs was, for many years, Mythic's magician. Building Mythic with Rob Denton from practically nothing, Mark may have seemed at times to be the man who could make planes disappear, levitate off the ground, and escape the flying blade of a saw. Dark Age of Camelot saw success that was unprecedented for Mark's family of a company, and even though the development of Imperator ultimately did not go anywhere, Mark's role in securing Games Workshop, navigating the EA seas, and eventually helming the release of WAR proved that as an executive, he had aces up his sleeve. Mark's accomplishments were perhaps dwarfed only by his personality, a bombastic, emotional , driven, presence that would probably rival the magicians of today.

This time, however, the magician didn't escape.

As was mentioned online and in Anglakhel's last WAH about the State of the Game, Mark Jacobs left Mythic in the wake of the Bioware and Mythic re-organization. There's been a ton of speculation about the circumstances surrounding Mark leaving, and we've been told "no comment" beyond what was already told to us publicly. In the face of the progress of WAR, where it is, where it has done well, and where it is faltered, we can only wonder what happened to the Mark Jacobs and Mythic show. It can be argued, however, that when the show isn't popular, it's the main person standing on stage that gets the hook, and not anyone else.

As a community, our experiences with Mark only are limited to our interactions with him and his personality online. As a major mouthpiece for Mythic, Mark was praised by many for his willingness to get his hands dirty and respond to the community directly. Whether it was to reassure some random poster about concerns regarding the game, or dive in on a discussion about delays and hot topics, Mark was there. Community sites benefited from Mark's posts, and insight beyond the usual interviews was gotten.

Personality, however, is a double-edged sword in the MMO development business. As much as Mark posted about information and bits about the game, he also was known to engage in online battles at times with critics and those who he felt were trolling. There were some instances with sites such as ours in which Mark stopped posting altogether, feeling as if his team was being unnecessarily disrespected and insulted. While I can understand the need to protect and defend those who you feel are working hard, there are times when making negative assumptions about what someone posts can do more harm to people's perception than help. Criticism, even of the harsh kind, is sometimes needed to make a game better, and so long as the intent is productive and the goal to suggest fixes, it probably doesn't deserve to be shut out.

Another factor is that as the main contributor to the spectacle that became WAR's release, Mark inevitably became its lightning rod. As is the case with many developers, Mark's had his fair share of quotables and statements that people held to the light. Mark opined on various different subjects, but the point is that he set the bar for WAR pretty high. He set expectations for the game, and did so with the confidence of a person in his position. What Mark did wasn't necessarily wrong in terms of MMO development, but the fact that such quotes made it out into the public sphere meant that ultimately, he had to take responsibility for them. This is, perhaps, a problem with MMO developers in general, who in today's more critical age of players, need to stop overpromising and then underdelivering, to set modest goals that they can easily grow into. Mark didn't do this, and WAR has paid for it in player perception of promises not kept, reflected in the downward trend of officially reported subscriptions.

It's no secret that WAR has struggled a bit since its release, and some would argue that it has fallen short of its expectations. I won't purport to know about the inner workings of Mythic, the machinations or the strategies that Mark and the company followed. But I can probably guess that if WAR truly hasn't met the bar that it was set for it, that no one knows that or feels that more keenly than Mark does. People may not like Mark Jacobs, but in the face of previous accomplishments and even in the cycle of WAR's development, you can't help but respect someone able to play a part as he did in WAR. This is why I'm not particularly saddened at his leaving - new opportunities always pop up for people like Mark, and let's not forget that despite his legacy, Mythic is and has never been one person. It's a team of individuals, all working their hardest to make WAR a better game. Mark was only one piece in the puzzle, and I'd think that if it had to happen, he'd rather have it come out this way, with him taking a bullet for the team which from more credible sources, he thought of as family.

It's probably appropriate to leave things with some more words from Mark. He's talking about Age of Conan here, but you can't help if the words might somehow apply to WAR as well:

From: http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/...-age-of-conan/

With Jacobs having played the game and having read fan postings on both the “Warhammer” and “Age of Conan” forums, he thought that Funcom should have delayed the game. “I think that the greatest mistake that they made was not listening and not learning from what had gone before,” Jacobs said, referring to the launch issues of Funcom’s “Anarchy Online” in 2001. “When they looked at ['Age of Conan'] when they were ready to launch, I can’t imagine how they didn’t see the issues that other people saw. According to their annual reports, they had plenty of money. They should’ve looked at it and said, ‘We need to delay this game.’ There are probably reasons I’m not aware of… but I think that’s their biggest sin.”

Jacobs said not all was lost for “Conan,” but with “Warhammer” and another “WoW” expansion on the way, they’ve now lost their head start. “If they’re willing to spend the time and the money to fix the things that — according to the players — are broken, and put in the things that players say they didn’t put in, they can turn it around,” he said. “But now they’re going to have to leapfrog over us and then leapfrog over Blizzard in order to bring back a ton of players — that’s going to be tough. They won’t be what they could’ve been.”

Though “Age of Conan” is competition, Jacobs told me he actually wanted the game to do well. “At some level I wanted ‘Conan’ to succeed because for the last few years people have been saying it’s all Blizzard and nobody else can do it,” he said. “‘Only Blizzard can get those kind of numbers,’ and so far they’ve been right. But now it’s our turn.”

He added, “If we don’t succeed with EA behind us, the ‘Warhammer’ IP behind us, with one of the most experienced teams in the industry, that’s not going to be good for the industry. We need to show the world that it’s not just Blizzard who can make a great game, and that the audience is absolutely willing to try new things and to play a game other than ‘WoW.’”

The magician has left the stage, but the show, inevitably, must go on.

[PhoenixRed]

I want to make it perfectly clear that we're going to be watching this thread very closely. For many people, it may be easy and natural to make Mark Jacobs or Mythic your punching bag in this thread, but know that we're not going to tolerate mindless bashing.

This is supposed to be a discussion thread on the good things, bad things, and overall effect of Mark Jacobs' role in WAR's development, not a flame fest or a way to kick people around. Criticisms and points are expected to be as respectful and productive as ours is. We're not here to shield Mythic or Mark from criticism but we're not here to make things into a barbecue of epic proportions either.

Just a reminder.

[Sardus]

I'm not sure how many troubled launches that it will take for new MMO game developers to see this one critical flaw:

You cannot release an MMO early and expect to be able to fix/complete the game at a later date.

Whatever advantage gained by releasing early is far overshadowed by the issues that you WILL face later on.

I'm not a fan of WoW but Blizzard has always had the right idea: they have never once released a game until they are 100% certain that the game is finished.

[indelible]

I have to point out that Mark had very little to do with DAoC when it came to the actual design of the game. Sure, he used his shrewd business knowledge to build Mythic into a reasonably strong company with DAoC but he made a lot of bad decisions when it came to WAR and those decision are all obvious.

Sadly, WAR s rumoured to be now sitting at around 100K subscribers in the EU and NA combined. Some are saying that's the global number. GOA is cutting their staff back by 50% and Mythic are moving WAR staff back to DAoC. Rumours are abound that - under the guidance of Dr Ray - Mythic are about to start work on a new MMO, with Bioware joining them once SWTOR is done. If this is the case, it's safe to say that Bioware Mythic are well and truly looking away from WAR to another project. I'm upset but I have to say that with Mark's departure followed by Mythics movement to being (effectively) another Bioware studio, it looks like WAR may well be looking at a bumpy and short lived future.

Mark had a lot of vision but I do think that he made a lot of poor decisions, not least making himself project lead. Other ex-developers at Mythic have said as much and there is even a storm around what exactly went on when key developers started to leave Mythic on the hush.

It is a sad day for WAR, Mythic and MMOs in general but I think this page has been turned and it's time to move on, for everyone involved. Not least Mark.

[Sardus]

On the plus side the recent sever merges have had a positive impact on the game. My old server was dead as a doornail but the new server that I am on is hugely active.

Good business decision. Not exactly what they wanted to do 9 months down the road but it is helping.

[Clangeddin]

Originally Posted by Sardus

I'm not sure how many troubled launches that it will take for new MMO game developers to see this one critical flaw:

You cannot release an MMO early and expect to be able to fix/complete the game at a later date.

Whatever advantage gained by releasing early is far overshadowed by the issues that you WILL face later on.

I'm not a fan of WoW but Blizzard has always had the right idea: they have never once released a game until they are 100% certain that the game is finished.

Oh come on, WoW was not finished at all at release. It had no pvp system, no battlegrounds and no raiding instances, 2 regions (Winterfall, Silithus) were utterly useless and almost void of any real content, class balance was much worse than in WAR today and almost half of the classes (Paladin, Druid, Hunter, Warlock) were totally broken and underpowered, with no competitive role options in either PvE or PvP (bar a few exceptions of those builds that relied on broken abilities like Reckoning that got eventually fixed once a paladin one shotted Kazzak)...
Blizzard could afford to release WoW unfinished, because at the time, the MMORPG market was a bastion of mediocrity that it only took them to realize that trying to open this genre to casual players might have been a recipe for success.
Sadly this can't be done anymore now, as we ALREADY have games that cater to casual audience. In addition, now they are also POLISHED.

You are right in saying that WAR release too early, but that's only half the story.
WAR was ANNOUNCED too early. Anyone remember that this game launch has been delayed 3 times, for a total of 1 year delay? How much longer do you think EA and community would have put up with that before the talk of "Vaporware" and such started?
They announced WAR back in late 2005 and announced everyone that it could have been finished in late 2007. It was never going to be true, and they had to postpone launch for a total of 1 year.

Here is what I think new MMO developers should do when it comes about new MMOs, stop building the hype by annoncing a game when it's not even at 20% of development stage. Keep the mouth shut and don't announce it until 80-90% of development stage for the beta-testing, and also, do not overpromise, you are going to underdeliver no matter what.

That said, I still think that this game has the potential to be a very good game, and partially recover the losses it suffered, if the original Tier 4 campaign is fixed, and some things about class balance are looked into.

[Kheradruakh]

Originally Posted by indelible

I have to point out that Mark had very little to do with DAoC when it came to the actual design of the game. Sure, he used his shrewd business knowledge to build Mythic into a reasonably strong company with DAoC but he made a lot of bad decisions when it came to WAR and those decision are all obvious.

Sadly, WAR s rumoured to be now sitting at around 100K subscribers in the EU and NA combined. Some are saying that's the global number. GOA is cutting their staff back by 50% and Mythic are moving WAR staff back to DAoC. Rumours are abound that - under the guidance of Dr Ray - Mythic are about to start work on a new MMO, with Bioware joining them once SWTOR is done. If this is the case, it's safe to say that Bioware Mythic are well and truly looking away from WAR to another project. I'm upset but I have to say that with Mark's departure followed by Mythics movement to being (effectively) another Bioware studio, it looks like WAR may well be looking at a bumpy and short lived future.

Mark had a lot of vision but I do think that he made a lot of poor decisions, not least making himself project lead. Other ex-developers at Mythic have said as much and there is even a storm around what exactly went on when key developers started to leave Mythic on the hush.

It is a sad day for WAR, Mythic and MMOs in general but I think this page has been turned and it's time to move on, for everyone involved. Not least Mark.

To retain subscribers after September WAR needs a complete revamping, especially in T4. It's still fun to beat on each other and I'm still challenged by the game. I've chosen to ignore or go around any endgame Mythic had in mind. Once you play the game as an FPS with swords and ignore Mythic's vision of the game it's actually pretty fun.

[Shakrah]

Thank you for a very interesting article, and a good summary.

It looks more and more that all the information was known, the intentions were there, but as often, it is much easier to look at "someone" else work (such as AoC) than to actually apply the same brutal assesment to yourself.

Intriguing how MJ knew that players' feedback was core, fixing fast what does not work essential, and still we got served spades of "l2p" comments.

Maybe an interesting question would be to split feedback from IP fans / first timers in MMO / others.

I noticed much enthusiasm and leniency with the game in the 2nd group, which would mean he reached his "gamer" target, but not enough to make it a convincing proposal, and frustration at least in group 1, meaning that he got the hype he wanted, but did not create the structure to cope with it in his own terms....

The bike of WarHammer IP was too big with a team not prepared to manage such radical expectations from the players. A good business case at any rate I think, and for MMOs in particular.

Maybe the mass is not said.

[kingbarbarossa]

Originally Posted by Sardus

I'm not sure how many troubled launches that it will take for new MMO game developers to see this one critical flaw:

You cannot release an MMO early and expect to be able to fix/complete the game at a later date.

Whatever advantage gained by releasing early is far overshadowed by the issues that you WILL face later on.

I'm not a fan of WoW but Blizzard has always had the right idea: they have never once released a game until they are 100% certain that the game is finished.

WoW was broken as hell at release. I remember every time I was picking up a quest, I'd go to the bathroom, get a sandwich, read a magazine, watch tv, etc. just because it took about 2-5 minutes to load the text for any quest. The TEXT.

[Kregar]

OK, we don't need to discuss that there are lots of things that need to be fixed. But let's not forget the things that are done very well.

I never had that much fun leveling a toon in an MMO. On my way to level 40 I always had the choice to do quests, or PQs or do RVR (at primetime) or make scenarios from any place in the world. No other MMO offers that much fun and diversity in low levels.

Unfortunately T4 is a whole different story. I wish city siege was more like a big Alterac Valley. With several different objectives to fight for. City siege is the worst part of WAR. It's really sad they did not take the time to do it right from the start. With city siege you realize that the game was rushed at the end. Even cutting out 4 of the other cities did not buy them enough time to do Altdorf and IC right.

[Siberwulf]

Pretty interesting topic. I don't know that I'd single out the problem/solution as Mark, or even CEOs/Executives in general. The problem is MMOs as a whole.

You've got a pretty interesting scenario with MMOs that is rarely duplicated. Mark hit it on the head when he titled his blog "MMOs are a niche industry." It is true. MMOs are very specialized. I've taken the time to list out a top three, and why they actually hurt the MMO industry as a whole.

1. MMOs are an ongoing and evolving expense to the consumer that can't be quantified. There are a few examples that exist outside this domain, such as Gyms. The difference though, is that the scope of a gym is much more standardized than a MMO. You say "I'm going to the Gym" and people have a pretty good idea of what you're going to be doing. You're going to hit the bikes, do some weights, maybe a cardio class. If you walk up to someone (assuming you ever leave your basement) and say "Hey, I'm going to go PvP." There is no real way to quantify or qualify that. What do you define as PvP? Is it grinding Scenarios? Is it open world? Is it small group roaming? Is it zerging? Keep taking? What? There's really only one way to do a benchpress or a squat.

Why this is detrimental: Your definition of PvP is not my definition of PvP. If I asked you if your gym has treadmills, and you say "No" then I know that if I'm a treadmill person, then I'm not going to like your gym. If I ask you if WoW has good PvP, and you say "Yes," it may or may not mean something to me. People come in with unrealistic expecations, and the rate of frustration is going to be pretty high sometimes. I know that coming from DAoC, that my idea of PvP was based on realm pride and just killing people. That really doesn't exist here. I'm somewhat disappointed and quite frankly a bit frustrated.

2. MMOs are a genre that lead to dissatisfaction upon perceived completion. When you get NBA 2009, nothing is more pinnacle than making it to the finals. When you pick up Mario 64, nothing is more fun than beating bowser. You've got this sense of accomplishment (which is clutch in any game genre).

How this is detrimental: When you get to Level 40, Rank 80... what is there? What about when you're in soverign gear? Whatever your flavor of MMO playstyle is, once you've gotten to the end...your choices are slim. You can reroll a new character and start all over, but the content isn't rapidly changing. You can run around and kill people for fun, but in today's gamer profile, a stick without a carrot is invisible. There's always Realm Pride! No, not really. See my previous comment on this. So with all this time investment, where are you?


3. The MMO Community is entirely online. That's a good thing in that you don't need offices, and don't need staff to go out and do housecalls, set up service shops, etc. Unlike the auto industry, for example, you don't have to worry about warranties.

How this id detrimental: The internet is full of morons. I've never seen such a good community, and bad community...all in the same community. We've got great people that can actually help build a sense of comradery. We've also inducted people who are overly negative. There's a point of constructive criticism, and being harsh about what needs work. Then then's wishing death upon someone, racist comments, spreading of hate and all that crap. This is not a WAR issue. This is present in ALL MMOs and comes from the Internet Tough Guy syndrome. These are the same people that would sit at a car dealer, and say "Ok, yes sir" and "That's not a problem that you're over charging me." Online however, they spew hate, armchair-quarterback-like flames, and are not required for a successful game.



So yeah, I know this article is about Mark. But really, it isn't about Mark. He was just a figure, really. People want to feel important out there, and when you have someone who works for the company of the product you play, and they talk to you...you feel important. It is probably a little bit of a power trip for those who have a fan base, and as close to celebrity status as they'll get.

The rise and fall of Warhammer is not on Mark's shoulders though, it never has been, and never will be. While conceived as his concept, the implementation, the underlying code and all that around it is not his. I respect his vision for WAR, but he's still just another person behind a keyboard and mouse. He sits in front of a monitor, just like you and I.

[orangerascal]

Originally Posted by kingbarbarossa

WoW was broken as hell at release. I remember every time I was picking up a quest, I'd go to the bathroom, get a sandwich, read a magazine, watch tv, etc. just because it took about 2-5 minutes to load the text for any quest. The TEXT.

I remember that.

I think that was blizzards cunning plan to keep you longer in the lower levels. Until they had time to add their content. All I can say is thank you mod developers

I remember once I hit 60, they can just launched Molten core and pvp ranks.

I think the biggest difference is that Mythic was playing catch up (4 careers) while Blizzard was adding new content which each release. In the last year the only new content we really saw was LOTD. The worst part is no one really wanted it over class balancing.

[PhoenixRed]

Originally Posted by Siberwulf

So yeah, I know this article is about Mark. But really, it isn't about Mark. He was just a figure, really. People want to feel important out there, and when you have someone who works for the company of the product you play, and they talk to you...you feel important. It is probably a little bit of a power trip for those who have a fan base, and as close to celebrity status as they'll get.

I touched upon this in my article, but yes, I fully meant to clarify that Mark is not the end-all be-all of the faults of WAR or of MMO development in general. Like many things, MMO development is a team effort which means both successes and failures are NOT the result of one person but many people.

I'm sure there are many people who bear the responsibility for Mythic's successes and failures with WAR. And if part of the strategy to protect his people was to be the main person talking about it, then Mark probably already took into account the distinct possibility that should things not meet expectations, he would be the fall guy. Or maybe he didn't. We can't really know, and I won't speculate as to how things went - I don't work for the company.

You can really just boil it down to MMO developers needing to stick to realistic goals.

[Heavenfall]

Regardless, while it may have been okay to release an unfinished product 5 years ago, it wasn't 1 year ago.

This is the new PC trend - release games that aren't finished, and polish them up after with the funds from the sales. Dow2, Demigod, Warhammer, AoC... the list goes on. And then 3-4 years later when its time for the next sequel, the company can boast about how it supports its games long after they've been released. No wonder, when half the people who bought it couldn't play it.

Back to basics, for me. If a game isn't finished at release, if they're already talking about what's "going" to be released (when its core elements of the game, like MULTIPLAYER or a graphics engine that can run on a top-of-the-line computer), then it's just going to be "no ty, lol".

[Siberwulf]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRed

You can really just boil it down to MMO developers needing to stick to realistic goals.

And even that is an unrealistic goal! (not kidding)

If anything was learned from WAR is that creating an MMO is akin to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. When you set up a goal, or a player base to cater to (and all software developers have to have a target audience/demographic) you have to identify the needs/wants of that player base. Those needs/goals change though, and at a fairly quick rate. What was popular in Beta for WAR, or what was popular at the time the design docs were created, had invariably changed by the time implementation was complete.

This was true of WAR, DAoC, and WoW. I'm pretty sure it was true in all the other MMOs, but I have nearly the experience with those, as I do with the other three.

So what does it mean? Eh. I don't know for sure. All I do know is that the golden goose doesn't exist. WoW is a fluke, just like the Wii. It relied on folks outside the genre to come in, and they popped their cherry, hence retention is high due to initial loyalty. The difference between WAR and WoW is not UI, or stability, or even graphics really. It is a matter of timing. I liken the whole thing to raising children. You can treat them exactly the same, give them the same books and send them to the same school, and due to the fact one grows up with a younger sibling, and one grows up with an older sibling...they will turn out completely different. Heraclitus maintains that everything is in a state of flux. There are quite a few higher philosophies in Game Design, and it can make your head spin. I boil it down to stupid math though. For $15/mo, could I get more entertainment out of something else? The answer right now... is "no."