The WAH, 7/29/09 - Unexpected Development

[PhoenixRed]

A little while back there was an interview posted at Gaarawarr Gabs of Producer Josh Drescher, who talked fairly plainly about WAR's state at the current time. Citing a long road ahead, Josh talked about "ego-checks" and "taking hard looks" at the things they had chosen to implement, making sure that they were the best experiences a player could have in WAR - even at the cost of their own confidence in the product.

While the interview was mostly light-hearted, and certainly worth a read, you can't help but wonder that this was a very sobering line of thinking. As much as we players like to complain and be hurt about WAR or any other game not meeting our standards, it probably stands to be that much more difficult for developers, who typically pour hours, sleepless nights, and years into a product, only for it to not pan out or be a good experience for players. I've always been a bit slow to the kneejerk response of ranting about something that isn't right in a game, simply because from another point of view, it's someone's livelihood, their passion, and their hard work.

As much as people like to convey how disappointed they are in WAR if they haven't enjoyed the game, I am certain that no one feels this more keenly than the developers who have touched the product and spent time with it. This is why Josh talks about developers being protective, "building a defense" around something even if they know it has certain flaws and things that are needed in order to improve things.

A common thread in forums, blogs, and sites among those who are dissatisfied with WAR is not meeting expectations. This points to something the developers feel as well, and what Josh was probably referring to. I'm not really too sure, however, if this is because WAR arguably didn't meet the standard set by its standard bearers (Mark, EA, and others) or more because of things not turning out as expected. This different way of looking at "expectations" - that is, as an occurrence of something not panning out in the grander vision of the game - is by no means an excuse, but it may explain some of the current core problems in WAR that need to be addressed by Mythic. There are a multitude of examples to support this thought.

For example, City Siege was meant to be an encounter that everyone wanted to participate in whether they were attacking or defending. It was to be the crown jewel conflict that capped the RvR campaign. But because of a couple of fundamental problems with advancement of city siege, and the demoralization of defenders constantly struggling to get out from under the thumb of domination, City Siege has not turned out to be the epic battle that it could be.

Taking Keeps and Battlefield Objectives was supposed to be a place to find Mythic's cherished open RvR, with constant heated battles resulting in exchanges of territory and well-worn tales of inexplicable defenses or strategically executed attacks. But the path of least resistance playstyle of many of today's MMO players and the lack of discouragement of such created in some situations, a mindset that actually avoiding RvR and attacking undefended keeps and BOs are more desirable to the risk and reward of RvR combat.

Population issues were to be a non-factor as organization and small, surgical teams could contribute meaningfully to the overall campaign. But the lack of self-balancing for a two-faction game (something that some argue would be solved in part by including a third faction) created, on some servers, a situation where constantly dominating factions continuously kept an underdog down, leading to hopeless situations for both sides to find dynamic, interesting conflict.

All of these things not turning out as Mythic expected them to be have probably led to many players leaving the game for greener pastures. So given all this information, in the next three months, Mythic hopefully will be obligated to look at where things didn't turn out the right way, and make improvements. Stage 1 and Stage 2 revamps for city siege, rewards and boosts for attacking/engaging in player conflict, server merges, and other such measures are good beginnings, but they shouldn't be the only things on Mythic's plate, nor should they be not willing to excise part of their original design to make a better experience for players.

What will test Mythic's resolve with coming MMO releases and the continuance of some solid entries (WoW, EVE, and LotRO, to name a few) is not necessarily fixing problems, but also being agile enough to adapt to some of the ones created by unexpected outcomes in core design. With some players dissatisfied at a fundamental level with Mythic's ability to follow through on their promises, they'll have difficulty on that front as well. But if they can respond well to feedback, metrics, and impressions about the content that they didn't expect to turn out as it is now, they might just be in a better place to set new, and more realistic, expectations for WAR.

[Kovaks]

They are presently where they need to be as a company. Stunned, disarmed and knocked down.
When you refuse to listen you get whats coming to you.

[Gaarawarr]

hehe, ok Frank, I love you, but edit your post.

1. He's a producer, not a senior producer.

That was even a joke during Part 1 of the interview. hehe

2. It's not "6-9 months from now".

I know people like to misinterpret that statement, but it really was said in the sense of "this is what we're going to be doing over the next 6-9 months" as opposed to "we'll have something more for you in 6-9 months" with nothing between now and then.

[Krust]

War is city of heroes all over again...

Mythic did NOT listen to the pvp community... they nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and killed the game.

Kudos mythic for being consistent atleast. After my time here runs out i will be making sure to avoid "mythic games"

[Earlydawn]

Part of Mythic's public experience has always been that humanizing humor, but I feel like a lot of this interview was wasted on total nonsense. The devs need their feet held to the fire right now. Throw hardballs. Mythic needs to make sure they stay with the perception of the playerbase from now on. It can't take half a year for the team to syncronize with obviously game-breaking problems anymore.

[PhoenixRed]

Originally Posted by Gaarawarr

hehe, ok Frank, I love you, but edit your post.

1. He's a producer, not a senior producer.

Don't you know this is all a part of a nefarious plan to promote him?

I edited it. Thanks.

2. It's not "6-9 months from now".

I know people like to misinterpret that statement, but it really was said in the sense of "this is what we're going to be doing over the next 6-9 months" as opposed to "we'll have something more for you in 6-9 months" with nothing between now and then.

Yeah, I know that. That's why I said "the first part of their 6-9 months from now", meaning, the first three months from now. I'll fix it to fix the language.

The devs need their feet held to the fire right now. Throw hardballs.

If by hardballs you mean criticism, that's ok. But if you mean insults and rants, that's not ok. No amount of screaming and carrying on is going to ultimately make as much of a difference. Criticism should be at heart something the developers can take away from the game.

But, there are quite a few people who enjoy the game, too. At Games Day Chicago, feedback was very balanced, and many players are excited about WAR despite its issues.

[Ileth]

Contrary from all the forum rants there is a very big player base that DO NOT POST on forums and are really happy of the game. I am a poster and sometimes criticist, but I enjoy the game a lot and I do not plan at all to change it with something else for quite a long time.
Everyone knows that WAR has issues and even happy players are aware of that, but we also know that the developer put so much passion in it that the game will achieve far more than all other games will.
And personally speaking I found all other mmorpgs with maybe less tehnical issues, but with FAR MORE class imbalance or gank frustration.
WAR gives an easy going pvp and a "PRO" pvp without taking the newbie totally out. And it is, as far as I know, the most balanced gear based mmo around.

[WeRT]

I remember "epic farming" city 3 times per day .
Common - this game is screwed and i do not stop talk this because some developer make a QQ.

THIS IS THEIR PRODUCT.
IM A CLIENT.
THIS IS RELATION.

btw. Thanx ,Mythic, for treating EU players like second category. We not forget about it.

[Isifel]

This game doesn't have 6-9 months, though it's nice to know at least some of the people behind the game are aware of the issues.

[Hohum]

Originally Posted by Ileth

Contrary from all the forum rants there is a very big player base that DO NOT POST on forums and are really happy of the game. I am a poster and sometimes criticist, but I enjoy the game a lot and I do not plan at all to change it with something else for quite a long time.
Everyone knows that WAR has issues and even happy players are aware of that, but we also know that the developer put so much passion in it that the game will achieve far more than all other games will.
And personally speaking I found all other mmorpgs with maybe less tehnical issues, but with FAR MORE class imbalance or gank frustration.
WAR gives an easy going pvp and a "PRO" pvp without taking the newbie totally out. And it is, as far as I know, the most balanced gear based mmo around.

Exactly what I've thought and agree with.

Ho

[Gaugamela]

Would be really interesting to know what percentage of the posters here that constantly bash WAR is still subscribed to the base. Criticism is all fine and dandy but there's no way of knowing if the people that are constantly bashing the game, predicting it's doom and saying that it won't survive for another 6 to 9 months are subscribers.

[Jmonkeh]

Originally Posted by Gaugamela

Would be really interesting to know what percentage of the posters here that constantly bash WAR is still subscribed to the base. Criticism is all fine and dandy but there's no way of knowing if the people that are constantly bashing the game, predicting it's doom and saying that it won't survive for another 6 to 9 months are subscribers.

Probably not many, because they've (excuse me, WE'VE) mostly decided not to keep shoveling money into an obviously failed MMO experiment. Still, it's interesting to watch the trainwreck.

[hammer9999]

Originally Posted by Krust

War is city of heroes all over again...

Mythic did NOT listen to the pvp community... they nerfed and nerfed and nerfed and killed the game.

Kudos mythic for being consistent atleast. After my time here runs out i will be making sure to avoid "mythic games"

And who is this community you are talking about like one unified party?

They didnt nerf many things fast enough imo, some abilities should not have made it out of beta in the state they were in.

Too much cc, too much aoe, the battle field is a soup of death and disorientation that is not worth going near. I've got a few 40's and I get tired of it really quick, only thing enjoyable is <30.

Endgame should have been more like DAOC. Less objective rules/timers which make it feel like a very contrived game of tag instead of actual war where you roam and take what you please until the enemy is sufficiently weakened to flood their inner walls.

I enjoyed my time with the game for the most part but now only have a subscription because my wife enjoys her level 10 bright wizard.

[PhoenixRed]

Originally Posted by Jmonkeh

Probably not many, because they've (excuse me, WE'VE) mostly decided not to keep shoveling money into an obviously failed MMO experiment. Still, it's interesting to watch the trainwreck.

Failure is an extreme exaggeration. You can call something a failure when it's actually failed, not when it is struggling.

As I said, and no one has yet to refute properly, MMO "death" or "failure" is rare. Many MMOs that people have written off are still operational and apparently, still making a profit - Vanguard, AoC, Planetside, and more. If WAR falls into this category, then so be it.

The "people who don't post on forums but play" argument is a tired and old one, so I'll simply support it by saying that at live and press events I have been to, the visitors and players who I've interacted with are a healthy mixture of concerned/critical and supportive. While this too is not an overal indication, it does say that failure is, I would say, an exaggeration.

The fact that you are actually "watching a trainwreck" proves you are still a bit interested in teh game, even if to watch it die.

[johnawesome]

"The fact that you are actually "watching a trainwreck" proves you are still a bit interested in teh game, even if to watch it die."

This is how i feel. I wanted to love war. I loved the gritty art style, the setting, the story, the different classes(in theory),and the concept. I unsubscribed and i dont plan on resubing anytime soon, but i would love to see all the things i disliked about war improve. I would love to come back to the game with all of the flaws that i found annoying fixed. I do still have interest in the game.