AP Regen and You!

[PhoenixRed]

From the From the Dev Team category we have: AP Regen and You!

"AP should be a pool, not an ocean." - Gett of Dark Crag

Action Points are something that effects everyone who plays WAR. Healers, Damage Dealers and Tanks all use Action Points, so it is only natural that when something changes about the way the system works, there is going to be concern, discussion and possibly confusion.

To help better explain what's going on with the current state of Action Points in WAR, the Community team reached out to the Combat & Careers Team Lead, Nate Levy, for insight into the recent bug fixes affecting AP Regeneration.

For more information, read on!

Source

[Rainofire]

This updade is great, I don't know why anyone would want to play with infinite AP, the new changes makes classes take more skill in my opinion, especially my zealot. I can no longer toss hots on everyone and group heal while having full AP.

[Stick&Move]

I agree. A very welcome patch. And as a bonus it makes those abilities or gear that increase AP regen or steal it from an opponent more than worthy whereas prepatch it was a wasted slot.

[Daraen]

It returns a layer of strategy to my gameplay that I was missing without noticing it.

Quality bug fix.

I love to see more of this kind of thing.

[Natums]

This change while good in a way, is horrible in many others

Much like many of mythics changes was short-sighted, premature, and done in a vacuum with regards to other parts of this game

This change totally shuffels class balance, game mechanics, and faction balance in a way that required a major patch

Several classes overall power has been dramatically changed

For instance WP/DoK healers in comparision to other healers has no been made dramatically stronger, due to use of the RF/SE mechanic where not has hard hit

Classes with AP drains such as AM/Shaman/Marauders/Blackguard/DPS DoK where buffed in powerful ways (a non-diminished soft CC, a target without AP can't use abilities)l

other DPS classes with high base AP costs such as White Lions where dramatically effected (in terms essentially nerfed)

Classes with AP regaining abilities such as sorcs/bw/IB where buffed because they can use these abilities to mitigate the nerf, unlike other classes that have to lose tactics to mitigate it

Furthermore this makes the EE buff almost a nerf for shadow warriors.


Simply put it was a short sighted change by mythic

while in terms of balanced, skillful, strategic, and quality game play this change, looked at in a vacuum of making AP more strategic, was a good choice, but when you start considering the effects to game balance, and what that entails to a quality game, this was a rushed, unprofessional, and irrational fix.

Next patch mythic needs to do a detailed look into AP drains, AP cost reduction abilities, AP granting tactics and abilities, basically anything that alters or changes AP, as well as an overall look at AP changes

Well it is neccesary to make AP a pool instead of an ocean, it isn't very fair to leave some classes in olympic size pools and others with 8 ounce glasses

[radishlaw]

I'd have to disagree with the above poster.

First, this is a very quick way to communicate with players. AP regen fix is big and deserves a herald article explaining the difference. I am glad Mythic understands the importance of explaining its decisions to the players. If this is what you mean by "short-sighted", I am glad Mythic got more short-sighted lately, addressing player concerns in a more timely manner.

Second, this AP regen is what SHOULD HAVE BEEN since release. The biggest problem in the whole ordeal is they not being able to fix it since 1.3.1 until the next major patch (1.3.2). Other than that, this is what Mythic always intended AP regen to be like. It is a bug fix. There is no reason not to stand behind bug fixes, especially when they work without problems.

That said, I do share some of the above poster's concern on career balance, but not because it's a "nerf" to WL or SW or other classes. One of my concerns is some of the career changes are done when the "infinite AP" bug is in effect. Will Mythic change it back, work out a short-term solution, or did they implemented those changes with the "normal" AP regen in mind after all? I hope Mythic can communicate further on this issue.
Another issue that the above poster said but is unrelated to the AP regen fix, is the fact that some classes have easier AP management than others. BW/Sorc is the worst offender in my opinion. Instead of a dangerous form of AP recovery which can be interrupted, both careers use a direct "HP->AP" convert ability in 1.3.2. It seem very strange when every other AP gain abilities are either trigger-based tactics, morales or overtime AP regen, and the most powerful (no denying that please) RDPS mirror in the game get the most straightforward AP ability. This problem isn't directly related to AP regen fix, but I hope the C&C team can look into it for the next career balance patch.

[Natums]

Originally Posted by radishlaw

First, this is a very quick way to communicate with players. AP regen fix is big and deserves a herald article explaining the difference. I am glad Mythic understands the importance of explaining its decisions to the players. If this is what you mean by "short-sighted", I am glad Mythic got more short-sighted lately, addressing player concerns in a more timely manner.

The CHANGE being a HOTFIX was what was short-sighted, isn't it obvious from my post, the communication is fine and great. Though it should of been done BEFORE the change. This is mythics problem they like to change something then ask for feedback. They have done countless brain dead changes in the past, I would of hoped they would of learned at this point to get feedback about an issue, then come up with a solution, get feedback on that, then continue till it is well designed. Instead they throw something on test server, then they ignore feedback, and blast it onto live, where it gets feedback and later changed but still not perfect.

Originally Posted by radishlaw

Second, this AP regen is what SHOULD HAVE BEEN since release. The biggest problem in the whole ordeal is they not being able to fix it since 1.3.1 until the next major patch (1.3.2). Other than that, this is what Mythic always intended AP regen to be like. It is a bug fix. There is no reason not to stand behind bug fixes, especially when they work without problems.

But there is, when mythic has been doing balance changes based on old regen rates. It is obvious they have been. This change while it was considered a bug fix (which honestly if we get into that arguement mythics definition is arbitrary and I unlike you have evidence to back up that claim. THis change was on the scale of the immunity changes in terms of change to gameplay yet immunity was done in a major patch, this was a minor hotfix.

Originally Posted by radishlaw

Another issue that the above poster said but is unrelated to the AP regen fix, is the fact that some classes have easier AP management than others. BW/Sorc is the worst offender in my opinion. Instead of a dangerous form of AP recovery which can be interrupted, both careers use a direct "HP->AP" convert ability in 1.3.2. It seem very strange when every other AP gain abilities are either trigger-based tactics, morales or overtime AP regen, and the most powerful (no denying that please) RDPS mirror in the game get the most straightforward AP ability.

At this point i am having serious issues not questioning your competence, the HP->AP conversion ability is DIRECTLY and totally related to the AP regen fix. AP manegement is directly and unseperatably tied to AP management. It is asinine to claim they are unrealted and somehow shouldn't be considered together.

Before the fix the ability is useless, after the fix it is a massive advantage and very powerful ability, so how is that unrelated? both are intimiately tied to each other

This is why mythics change was short-sighted and unprofessional, they did a hotfix change that didn't address the power of certain abilities that instantly went from worthless to very powerful, that not all classes have available to them.
to call them unrelated is

[radishlaw]

Originally Posted by Natums

The CHANGE being a HOTFIX was what was short-sighted, isn't it obvious from my post, the communication is fine and great. Though it should of been done BEFORE the change. This is mythics problem they like to change something then ask for feedback. They have done countless brain dead changes in the past, I would of hoped they would of learned at this point to get feedback about an issue, then come up with a solution, get feedback on that, then continue till it is well designed. Instead they throw something on test server, then they ignore feedback, and blast it onto live, where it gets feedback and later changed but still not perfect.

As I said, it is treated as a bug fix, so it is a bit different than all other features that got thrown on the 1.3.2 PTS. And don't forget there is another process with the Oracles which is generally hidden from normal players (there are at least a couple things that didn't get past this stage) which is still "getting feedback from players".

Originally Posted by Natums

But there is, when mythic has been doing balance changes based on old regen rates. It is obvious they have been. This change while it was considered a bug fix (which honestly if we get into that arguement mythics definition is arbitrary and I unlike you have evidence to back up that claim. THis change was on the scale of the immunity changes in terms of change to gameplay yet immunity was done in a major patch, this was a minor hotfix.

Which of the immunity changes are you talking about though? There are a few of them in various hotfixes, and if you are talking about merging unstoppable and rootward/freedom then it is definitely not the same thing, as it was a change to the immunity system.

Originally Posted by Natums

At this point i am having serious issues not questioning your competence, the HP->AP conversion ability is DIRECTLY and totally related to the AP regen fix. AP manegement is directly and unseperatably tied to AP management. It is asinine to claim they are unrealted and somehow shouldn't be considered together.

Before the fix the ability is useless, after the fix it is a massive advantage and very powerful ability, so how is that unrelated? both are intimiately tied to each other

This is why mythics change was short-sighted and unprofessional, they did a hotfix change that didn't address the power of certain abilities that instantly went from worthless to very powerful, that not all classes have available to them.
to call them unrelated is

So you are saying here that they should magically fix every bug and issue brought up by every player in a single patch or not doing it at all? AP regen IS a bug fix, everything posted by the devs in herald or official forum indicates they treat it as such, and everyone who played prior to 1.3.1 can tell you AP isn't supposed to regenerate during GCD. Career balance is an ongoing issue since release. It's true that AP regen fix has changed career balance, but is it a good or bad thing? Do keep in mind that a lot of classes have abilities that deal with AP management, and thanks to the fix they are useful again. You can't really blame the fix because some classes are still at a great advantage after the fix. That have to be dealt with by more career rebalance. That's why I said they aren't directly related.

[Rakavich]

Awesome bug fix, the only people that can/will complain about this bug fix are probably no talent ability spammers..

Brings back some skill element to combat, Much needed bug fix

[Siberwulf]

While the change might have caused some discomfort for some classes, I think it is important to set an equal baseline across all classes, THEN do micromanagement. This was true when they did AoE changes, when they did CC changes, and now when they're doing AP changes. Once the major widely-used game mechanics are on the same level playing field, it will be time to go through and move classes up and down to fit into the overall balance picture.

I personally feel this stuff should have been done as part of the Beta process. While it is true that some things don't show up until the live game, I think these major systems (as well as stuff such as server/client optimization) can and should have been picked up back then before people started paying to play.

Overall, better late than never.

[Lordalpha]

it's one of the most if not the most important change since...i don't even know : fianlly the spammer will have to think : all combat i've been involved in lately are totally different : more strategy, more fun

Great !